DanDz

Hell to all my old friends on the site and all then newbies. Even though I am not new, I am posting in this category because I haven't written in a while. I have been a member of veganbodybuilding.com since 2004, I believe, maybe 2003. I can't quite remember now. But anyway, although I may not post as much as I used to, I stil hang out reading things on the site quite often. It still amazes me how much this site has grow in the past couple years - truly amazing and that alone serves a sign of inspiration to us all about the health, longevity, and growth of the vegan movement. I also figured now was a good time to re-introduce myself because I see there are a couple of people from the New England area, more specifically Connecticut who have recently joined. I myself was born and raised in CT and plan to live here for life. For those that are from CT, I live in East Windsor, in north-central Connecticut, about 20 minutes outside of Hartford. News about myself: I recently graduated from UConn and am in the final weeks of wedding prepartion. My finacee and I are getting married on July 2nd, and are honeymooning for 4-5 weeks around this beautiful country. (She is a school teacher and has the summers off, and I am in the midst of a job change after being with the same company for 5 years, so now is as good a time as ever to take off for the summer...we probably won't have the opportunity to do it again.) Besides that we recently celebrated our 1 year anniversary in our first home. I have been living here since last October after doing about 6 months of renovation prior to moving in. And since we are more traditionlists, Andrea will be moving in officially after we get married. Nonetheless, life is looking good and I hope God continues to bless us and our marriage in all his beautiful ways! May God bless everyone on this site and hopefully I won't be such a stranger in the future! P.S. Hi to my old friends - Rob, CompassionateGirl, and hi to all my new ones! Keep the Faith

Did you guys have to do any dissection in your anatomy & physiology classes, how much? If you refused to dissect, how did the instructor treat your refusal? Just curious because I will be taking an anatomy & physiology class soon.

Nat, I knew somebody would ask me that. I am afraid I don't know exactly how to explain it, at least not within Christianity. As I said in a different thread, I have a good friend who became a Hare Krishna devotee. His love of God which was great before, has strengthened. He is always telling me about the philosophies of this religion and they are very interesting and there are many similarities to Christianity. I don't really know how to explain it from a Christian philosophy, but my friend would say, as according to the bhagavat-gita, this is the Age Of Kali-uga and there is so much corruption and impurity. The laws of karma just simply tell us that the murders of animals are attached to killing, and thus they will be killed in their next life, as they have not attained God realization. That was about animals, but what about little children with cancer? That is when it gets so hard to explain. With cancer specifically, all I know is that cancer does not just happens, it develops. There are reasons a person becomes sick. Of course, with a child that is harder to say. There is a host of environmental and physical reasons that they may be stricken with the disease. I think it is extremely foolish to attribute God with the cause of the disease. From a more eastern perspective, perhaps even the young child was born with bad karma from a previous life. Perhaps that spirit soul within this child, was once a butcher in their past life. I know this sounds tough, but we do have the choice of where our destiny will take us. ( I realize I have incorporated a view of Christianity with reincarnation and karma, two words that seem forbidden in Christianty. But, I believe they can exist with the other and wouldn't have it any other way.)Tough question!

Hartford, Connecticut. Well about 20 minutes outside of the city to be exact, in an area of mixed rural farmland and small industry, nesteled alongside the mighty Connecticut River...the town is East Windsor, Connecticut. Anyone else on hear from New England?

Jonathan, my friend, what is honestly the point of living if there is no God? Why not kill yourself now, but wait, before that go on doing whatever you want, whenever you want, because there is no reason to live morally if ther is no God. Without God, what is the point of this material existence? Why even live, there is no point? No God, no point to life. I think early you were trying to make a claim against the notion that God does punish his people. Some might wonder, if God is so loving, why do these weather events happen, for instance, where so many suffer? Well, haven't you ever been punished out of love? Didn't your mother punish you as a child? Not because she wanted you to suffer, but rather because she loved you? Your mother did not say, "If you only want to eat candy go ahead, if want to go play in the street, go ahead?" No there were rules and regulations to follow for a proper life, and if you broke those rules you were punished. But again, punished out of love. In much the same way, God is love. If the people don't obey the rules and regulations of God, thus defying the laws of nature, they are punished. Punished out of love. Furthermore, Natalie's discussion subject did not invite criticism. It only invited a spiritual, philosophical debate. Also, she did not pick out bits and pieces of the Bible of which to alter to her own liking. She discussed certain passages where there is no debate to the meaning of the words. I too have read into some eastern philosophies. I actually have a very close friend who is krisna conscious and they have their ancient scriptures called the bhagavat-gita. Other realigions of the eastern world also use these scriptures. Vegetarianism is also a commandment in the bhagavat-gita. Animal slaughter is prohibited, mostly for karmic reasons. If you kill in this love, you too, in turn, will be killed in the next life due to the laws of karma. To break free fromt the cycle of birth and death, you must attain God realization. God realization is the point of all religions. What is the point of life, if there is no God? ( and I know you are going to ask, what is the piont of life, if there is a God.) I'lll be wating.

Megan, welcome. I find it great that you are a nutrition major and are becoming a registered dietician. I will be graduating shortly from the University of Connecticut and will be applying for a doctorate program in Naturopathic Medicine. While there I also hope to get a master's degree in human nutrition. There are so many nutritional fallacies being espoused today it seems. We need more people like you, who know the truth about how amazingly healthy and natural a vegetarian diet is. Interestingly enough, I am taking a course this semester on Health and Wellness. There is this undergraduate nutrition major in the class and we debated many times concerning nutrition subjects. Oh yeah and it is an online class, so everything is seen by all members of the class. Anyway, although she didn't directly dismiss a vegetarian diet as bad, she always had a way of stating indirectly that a plant based diet is not healthy. But, I do feel that I made a pretty strong stand against her...so all is well. Thanks for doing what you are doing - the vegetarian community needs it!

Mike it is great to have you on this site. Paul Bragg is certainly an amazing man and has published some great books. Have you read Miracle of Fasting? That really had a profound effect on me. Also, it is nice to have another person on board who feels that it is pleasing to God to live a more compassionate and spiritual life through a more compassionate and spiritual diet...and one that is full of health benefits as God intended. I think you said it best about why veganism is so great, "I feel like I need to be...because I believe it pleases God and it would be really good for me too...." Thanks for joining! Talk to you soon, on here, I am sure.

Welcome Nobbie! I think you will really enjoy the environment on this site. Enthusiastic, compassionate, intelligent, and healthy - all factors that make this a great site. Glad to have you on board!

Welcome Jason! Were you able to get any vegan or vegetarian food while in the Marines, how often? Thanks for joining us!

Nat, you always are so eloquant and profound in your words...nice job. Jonathan you said, "i think that judeochristian and islamic culture is a major hurdle for animal rights." Jonathan, by all you have said, I find you and people like you, to be the major hurdles for animal rights. I think I understand what you are trying to say, but remember it is not the religious principles themselves that are bad, it is usually the hypocritical people who follow these religions that are bad. I for one, think that aethiests are a major hurdle for animal rights. I know you don't believe in God, but if there is no God then why not kill. Why not kill and eat animals to just gratify your taste buds? Afterall, according to your thinking there is no greater being to judge your actions, so what is the harm? If there is no God, why not do everything that tempts you - lie, cheat, steal? You say there is no God, so what is the point of living compassionately? You have no reason to worry about karmic activities and the like if there is no God. Christianity is not a hurdle for animal rights - some of the followers who do not truly understand God are the major problems. On the other hand, aetheism is a huge hurdle for animal rights. The distinction must be noted.

Somehow, I missed all of this thread. I must have not checked in for a couple of days at that time. This is a very serious topic for me, but fortunately Natalie has said it all and more. CollegeB has also done a great job defending vegetarianism! Up until recently, I too was at odds with my faith concerning Christianity. Being raised a Catholic and still practicing today, I have been told by some hard-core, non-vegetarian, but otherwise spiritual Catholics, that meat eating is fine in the eyes of God, while vegetarianism is looked down upon or unnecessary for spiritual life. At the time I didn't know better. I was only vegetarian for ethical, environmental, and health reasons, but I had not yet made the connection between vegetarianism and my faith. Actually I think I had, but I just didn't know how the pieces fit together. After reading "The Lost Religion of Jesus"a by Keith Akers, my vegetarianism really came full circle. I had always knew that Jesus was a man of strict compassion and love, love of all life and creatures, but I just didn't know how to fit it all together. This book really was a great and miraculous read. I always tell people that I am vegetarian first for God. I am a vegetarian because I believe in God and believe in following the laws of God. If you look at the whole issue at the most basic level, God's intention can be shown. One of the Commandments is, "Thou Shall Not Kill." It doesn't get anymore simple. It does not say we shall not kill humans, but it is acceptable to kill animals. No, it says simply, "Thou Shall Not kill." No consolations. Then we have the vegetarian state in the Garden of Eden and God's many commands of vegetarianism throughout the Bible. We also have commands of compassion towards all creatures, including our animal brethren and respect for all life. Jesus, many biblical scholars conclude, was a vegetarian. He was the Prince of Peace, the extrem non-violentist, who decried in the hours before his death to his disciples, "Put Away the Swords." It is accepted that Jesus was extremely non-violent and killing is accepted as always being inherently violent, so why would Jesus ever kill or accept food of slaughtered animals - he wouldn't. Also, although many who wish to proclaim Jesus as a fish eater, point to the story of Jesus turning a loaf of bread and some fish into enough food to feed thousands as reasons for his meat-eating and also point to other passages where fish is mentioned at his meal, many scholars agree that the term has been altered in translation, as Nat and CollegeB pointed out. However, the issue isn't some much what Jesus ate then as it is, What would Jesus eat today? This most compassionate man surely wouldn't accept the factory farms, abuse, and slaughterhouses of today's world. He surely wouldn't accept the ways God creatures have been turned into living dollar signs for the meat, egg, and dairy industry at which they can torture and abuse freely. Jesus would surely reject all of these practices and would follow the laws of his father, God. Furthermore, MichaelHobson you said, "If your god were actually concerned about any of these issues, couldn't he just put a stop to it?" God grants us free will. We have the right granted by God to kill or to love. To be compassionate, or evil. To be a meat-eater or vegetarian. God grants us free will to do as we please. However, it does not mean he accepts behavior which defies his commands. God is most definitely concerned with this behavior, and he does punish the wicked. Many fail to see how God punishes. We can do as we please, but if it does not please God than we will be punished. Sometimes we get wacky weather, floods, periods of drought, great cold... this is God's power. God does stop behavior that does not please him, he punishes. Some ask, if God is so kind, so loving, why we he punish his people. But, he punishes out of love. Doesn't the mother sometimes punish her child out of love? Yes of course, and God does the same. So Michael, GOd is very concerned about these issues, however we do have free will to do as we please. He does punish, but not always in the easiest, most noticeable ways. God Bless!

Yes!!! I am so proud to see Connecticut on there, knowing that 2 of the shirts were for me! (LOL) Is anybody else on this site from Connecticut or New England?

Welcome to the site, Attila. I was just wondering: how is the vegan scene over in Germany? Are there more vegans/vegetarians in Germany, than the United States, percentage wise? Is it accepted at all in Germany? Here in the United States the whole vegetarian/vegan movement is really growing rapidly. There are more vegan foods than ever before, you hear more people talking about the diet, and you even hear more and more in the medical community embracing the diet as a very healthy one. So how are things in Germany?

Michael Hobson, I do like what you have to say. I guess it is one of those cases where we just agree about what to disagree on, but most importantly we are in accordance concerning the important issues. You do turn to science for your backing, while I turn to God. I don't dismiss scientific theory, but I think God comes first, then science. There is no science without God. We do have different views on the issue, but we are still vegan bretheren, first and foremost...and that is what is important! You asked, "If it's not "man's intended diet", then it's no good? What if your theory is incorrect and the scientific evidence is right? Should we abandon veganism? " I do think that if this is not God's intended diet for man, then I would absolutely abandon vegansim. I would do such because if the vegan diet was found to be deficient then it would be defying the laws of God and nature. However, I will not abandon the vegan diet because I think it is God's intended diet and to eat vegan is to follow the laws of nature. But, then it would still be an ethical issue, not as much as a nutritional one in that instance. There would still be the issue of animal abuse and slaughter, which are sins in the eyes of God. So perhaps if I found vegansim to be deficient nutrionally in its natural state, I would revert back to some form of lacto-vegetarian, but only drink milk from certain cows, raised, respected, and loved in certain ways. However, this diet still has so many flaws and ethical problems associated with it. So again, I would be brought back to veganism; following God's plan and God's diet. Also, Daywalker made some great points. He said, "The average vegan diet is far from being "natural"." He went on to speak about the altered food substances most vegans eat, from soy ice creams to veggie dogs, to puddings. I think that notion brings us back to the point that we should all be striving to eat the highest quality foods possible. Like most vegans who don't eat 100% raw foods, I myself need to strive to get to that goal or close to it. We should all strive to incorporate a greater amount of raw foods into our diets. Daywalker your point that the current vegan diet eaten by many today is not totally "natural" does not fall on deaf ears. Your point is well taken. However, although most don't eat foods totally natural, I think the fact that the diet can sustain a human being in its natural state is the key point. Also, you are right about certain plants losing their nutritional value over time. This has been rapidly occuring over the last 100 years, as fruits and vegetables have been hybridized, genetically modified, and altered to no end. Not only have fruits lost nutrional value with each successive generation, but many people old enough to recall the taste of fruits in previous years claim that they have also lost taste. The only way around this seems to be to not buy genetically modified organisms (GMO's) and search for organic, heirloom varieties. They are harder to find and probably cost a little more, but are worth it in the end. Lastly, we all can only do our best to live vegan and healthy in today's world. We cannot divorce ourselves from this world, this society, and this life so we must make consolations. For example, allthough we cannot always buy organic, we should still remember we are at least buying some sort of fruit, rather than some sugar sweet. We live in a very "unnatural" world today, but the vegan diet still stands out among the rest as the most "natural." It is the most natural diet and that is why I will continue to follow it.

"on the one hand you have religious zealots preaching that you will go to hell if you have sex before marriage, and on the other there are thousands of girls dropping out of school to have kids as no one will have an abortion." Jonathan, I also noticed you seem to be advocating the act of abortion here. I also find it very ironic when vegans/vegetarians argue that all life should be respected and held sacred, as a means to defend the rights of animals, but then those same individuals argue for abortion of human life. Is this the position you are advocating? How can we defend the rights of animals, but then say it is alright to kill humans? We constantly say we must protect the weakest and most defenseless of life (such as those in factory farms and slaughterhouses), but what about those human souls that have not had the right to life. There are many hurdles the vegetarian movement must cross if more people are to embrace the principles of the movement, but if we argue to stop killing animals but say it is alright to kill humans in the form of abortion, why would anyone want to embrace a movement with people who have such a philosophy?