Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:10 pm 
If we look at this as a choice issue my dog wouldn't eat what you'd think. I promise you if I had three bowls of food...one with vegan dog food, one with regular dog food, and one with vegan ice cream...my dog would choose the ice cream each and every time. Giving my dog vegan dog food and not giving her ice cream all the time is me making a decision for her. Not leaving my front door open in my house so my dog can't run in the street and get hit by a car is me making a decision for her too. We make these decisions all the time...I'd rather the one exception to the rule not require the killing of many animals for the life of one.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:40 pm 
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I would love to make my 2 cats vegan! But I don't have any idea where I can buy vegan catfood, I see vegetarian dogfood, but none for cats. I don't know how well one of the cats would adapt though. The other cat that I have adopted has a tendency to want to eat whatever I'm eating, she even drinks ice tea, which I'm not too happy when I see her drinking out of my cup lol. Anyway a vegan diet would be a good choice probably, since the first mentioned cat seems to throw up some of his food, at least a few times a week. And I know the catfood I give them isn't good for them, the cats are smart and sometimes won't touch the canned food, so I imagine it's gone bad. Besides I've been told that some pet food has euthanized pets in it, which sickens me. I would love to make this transition, I just hope my 2 cats will cooperate, and not start hunting.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:53 pm 
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veganpotter wrote:
If we look at this as a choice issue my dog wouldn't eat what you'd think. I promise you if I had three bowls of food...one with vegan dog food, one with regular dog food, and one with vegan ice cream...my dog would choose the ice cream each and every time. Giving my dog vegan dog food and not giving her ice cream all the time is me making a decision for her. Not leaving my front door open in my house so my dog can't run in the street and get hit by a car is me making a decision for her too. We make these decisions all the time...I'd rather the one exception to the rule not require the killing of many animals for the life of one.


Exactly. Let's not support factory farming for the sake of our pets. Feed them a vegan diet.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:54 pm 
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hsorlando wrote:
I would love to make my 2 cats vegan! But I don't have any idea where I can buy vegan catfood, I see vegetarian dogfood, but none for cats. I don't know how well one of the cats would adapt though. The other cat that I have adopted has a tendency to want to eat whatever I'm eating, she even drinks ice tea, which I'm not too happy when I see her drinking out of my cup lol. Anyway a vegan diet would be a good choice probably, since the first mentioned cat seems to throw up some of his food, at least a few times a week. And I know the catfood I give them isn't good for them, the cats are smart and sometimes won't touch the canned food, so I imagine it's gone bad. Besides I've been told that some pet food has euthanized pets in it, which sickens me. I would love to make this transition, I just hope my 2 cats will cooperate, and not start hunting.


This is exactly why I made the blog post. Please check out my blog post for information on where to buy products and what I recommend buying.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:11 pm 
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hsorlando wrote:
I would love to make my 2 cats vegan! But I don't have any idea where I can buy vegan catfood, I see vegetarian dogfood, but none for cats. I don't know how well one of the cats would adapt though. The other cat that I have adopted has a tendency to want to eat whatever I'm eating, she even drinks ice tea, which I'm not too happy when I see her drinking out of my cup lol. Anyway a vegan diet would be a good choice probably, since the first mentioned cat seems to throw up some of his food, at least a few times a week. And I know the catfood I give them isn't good for them, the cats are smart and sometimes won't touch the canned food, so I imagine it's gone bad. Besides I've been told that some pet food has euthanized pets in it, which sickens me. I would love to make this transition, I just hope my 2 cats will cooperate, and not start hunting.


Let us know how it goes.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:18 am 
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Billy thanks for posting your blog. I find this topic very interesting. I'm convinced that dogs can be vegan, I guess a cat would do alright, but I'm not opposed to letting them outside to do what it is cats do. Regardless I've shyed away from pet ownership because of the ethical implications of what to feed them, and I'm not really ready for the level of care they might need. It's great though and I hope to have a vegan dog at some point. I have wondered though if animal liberation folks having pets is really consistent. Also, as a moderator I'd prefer that users of the forum not resort to personal attacks and slander which I saw about 2 pages ago.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:15 pm 
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CollegeB wrote:
I have wondered though if animal liberation folks having pets is really consistent.


I see it as our responsibility. I get very annoyed when fellow vegans convince others out of adopting animals. Animals are dying by the millions each year in shelters. Humans domesticated dogs and cats, and now we must take care of them. This brings up an important point, however: as animal rights activists, if we are successful in convincing everyone to adopt and not support breeders, what happens when dogs and cats stop breeding? Granted, this is a long way off, but is the disappearance of pets a possibility? Or, once we reach a more sustainable level, do we allow some pets to procreate?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:51 pm 
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xbillyx wrote:
GoldenRatio wrote:
Lets just end it here. You go veganize your animals and I will go to the park so my dog can go hunt some pigeons for dinner...


Anyone know who this joker is? I really wish this wasn't such a hot debate in our movement. How can we claim to be ending suffering when our pets consume it daily?


I kid, I kid...

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:53 pm 
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Dr. Pink wrote:
*Don't take me seriously this is only a hypothetical silly idea*

What if we put our dogs on a natural nature diet? Take our pets our to the wild and let them run free to hunt and game on there own. Learn to survive on there own and to dive down to there basic animal instincts. Then when there done eating they will come back to you and you can go back to where you live.

The natural instinct diet. A nature endorsed product since the beginning of time.


As silly as it may sound this does seem to make a little bit of sense, However the logistics of such an operation wont work, especially if you dont live near a forest

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:52 pm 
If our dogs went out in the wild they'd have the potential to pass diseases that the other animals cannot fight. It would be a terrible thing. It really is a bad idea to do this. This is why its even a bad idea to let wild zoo animals back into the wild...they need to be segregated for the good of the rest of the environment(no I don't mean they should stay in a zoo but they should go to a rescue).


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:58 pm 
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So after reading all of these posts (yes, every single one), my views on feeding my dog meat (which I do) has changed, but not much...

See, these are my thoughts: I'm really big on the whole natural selection/evolution/survival of the fittest/etc. thing. I always thought that feeding meat to my dog, who in the wild would eat mostly meat, was a logical choice. I didn't know that vegan dog food existed.

Although I do agree that dog food is made from terrible things-and probably is not the most nutritious thing for them to eat-it is meat, nonetheless. I don't think dogs should be eating cows, pigs, lamb, or whatever other crap is put in their food, but I think that dogs shouldn't be deprived of meat either. My dog will eat most fruits without hesitation, but vegetables? Most vegetables we ever try to feed him, he will just lick and leave on the floor.

As for cats, I've never had any, and probably never will. They're not the same "pack-animal" type pets as dogs usually, which is why I don't like them as much. But that's just me. Anyway, as for their diets, they also eat meat in the wild. Again, obviously not what's put in their foods but I think it's closer than vegetables.

Now, I read all the posts, and some say that every necessity that cats and dogs get from meat is made synthetically and put into their food, which makes it healthy.

Wouldn't that be the same thing as humans synthetically making vitamins, minerals, and carbs and then putting them into meat so that we could eat them and get a balanced diet? Obviously, this isn't a good idea because humans are herbivores (or possibly omnivores with almost no meat in their diet).

My belief is that animals should eat what they were made to eat. Humans should eat vegetation, while dogs and cats eat what they normally would in the wild. I don't agree with what's put into non-vegan pet food, but I think it's probably closer to what they would eat in the wild, not in terms of nutrition, but in terms of where it comes from. What's closer to a rabbit? A cow or a carrot? I'm not saying that a cow and a rabbit are similar in very many ways, but they're both animals. That's just my opinion.

PLEASE DON'T ATTACK ME :)

I totally agree with the ethical reasons for making a pet vegan, but I'm not sure if I totally agree with the health beliefs associated with the choice.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:12 pm 
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GRardB wrote:
So after reading all of these posts (yes, every single one), my views on feeding my dog meat (which I do) has changed, but not much...

See, these are my thoughts: I'm really big on the whole natural selection/evolution/survival of the fittest/etc. thing. I always thought that feeding meat to my dog, who in the wild would eat mostly meat, was a logical choice. I didn't know that vegan dog food existed.

Although I do agree that dog food is made from terrible things-and probably is not the most nutritious thing for them to eat-it is meat, nonetheless. I don't think dogs should be eating cows, pigs, lamb, or whatever other crap is put in their food, but I think that dogs shouldn't be deprived of meat either. My dog will eat most fruits without hesitation, but vegetables? Most vegetables we ever try to feed him, he will just lick and leave on the floor.

As for cats, I've never had any, and probably never will. They're not the same "pack-animal" type pets as dogs usually, which is why I don't like them as much. But that's just me. Anyway, as for their diets, they also eat meat in the wild. Again, obviously not what's put in their foods but I think it's closer than vegetables.

Now, I read all the posts, and some say that every necessity that cats and dogs get from meat is made synthetically and put into their food, which makes it healthy.

Wouldn't that be the same thing as humans synthetically making vitamins, minerals, and carbs and then putting them into meat so that we could eat them and get a balanced diet? Obviously, this isn't a good idea because humans are herbivores (or possibly omnivores with almost no meat in their diet).

My belief is that animals should eat what they were made to eat. Humans should eat vegetation, while dogs and cats eat what they normally would in the wild. I don't agree with what's put into non-vegan pet food, but I think it's probably closer to what they would eat in the wild, not in terms of nutrition, but in terms of where it comes from. What's closer to a rabbit? A cow or a carrot? I'm not saying that a cow and a rabbit are similar in very many ways, but they're both animals. That's just my opinion.

PLEASE DON'T ATTACK ME :)

I totally agree with the ethical reasons for making a pet vegan, but I'm not sure if I totally agree with the health beliefs associated with the choice.


Yes, Opposing Views. The disscussion is not as clear cut as it may seem. :hello1: and I dont think anybody will attack you after the mod made his presence evident, If they do I got your back :naka:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:27 pm 
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As far as the "natural selection" and "what dogs are "made" to eat... we usually take that stance to shoot down any arguments with anyone who says that humans are made to eat meat as well...

Dogs, for a fact, are physiological omnivores, as are bears, and humans. Omnivores have the ability to take their nutrition from many different sources, including plant sources. Just because we as a species have eaten meat for years doesn't make it "right" for us to continue to do so when we can thrive on non-meat sustinence. The same goes for dogs.

What's "natural" for a creature is really irrelevant once you've got a domesticated animal on your hands.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:32 pm 
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GRardB wrote:
So after reading all of these posts (yes, every single one), my views on feeding my dog meat (which I do) has changed, but not much...

See, these are my thoughts: I'm really big on the whole natural selection/evolution/survival of the fittest/etc. thing. I always thought that feeding meat to my dog, who in the wild would eat mostly meat, was a logical choice. I didn't know that vegan dog food existed.

Although I do agree that dog food is made from terrible things-and probably is not the most nutritious thing for them to eat-it is meat, nonetheless. I don't think dogs should be eating cows, pigs, lamb, or whatever other crap is put in their food, but I think that dogs shouldn't be deprived of meat either. My dog will eat most fruits without hesitation, but vegetables? Most vegetables we ever try to feed him, he will just lick and leave on the floor.

As for cats, I've never had any, and probably never will. They're not the same "pack-animal" type pets as dogs usually, which is why I don't like them as much. But that's just me. Anyway, as for their diets, they also eat meat in the wild. Again, obviously not what's put in their foods but I think it's closer than vegetables.

Now, I read all the posts, and some say that every necessity that cats and dogs get from meat is made synthetically and put into their food, which makes it healthy.

Wouldn't that be the same thing as humans synthetically making vitamins, minerals, and carbs and then putting them into meat so that we could eat them and get a balanced diet? Obviously, this isn't a good idea because humans are herbivores (or possibly omnivores with almost no meat in their diet).

My belief is that animals should eat what they were made to eat. Humans should eat vegetation, while dogs and cats eat what they normally would in the wild. I don't agree with what's put into non-vegan pet food, but I think it's probably closer to what they would eat in the wild, not in terms of nutrition, but in terms of where it comes from. What's closer to a rabbit? A cow or a carrot? I'm not saying that a cow and a rabbit are similar in very many ways, but they're both animals. That's just my opinion.

PLEASE DON'T ATTACK ME :)

I totally agree with the ethical reasons for making a pet vegan, but I'm not sure if I totally agree with the health beliefs associated with the choice.


The whole argument about what's natural doesn't even apply. We live in an unnatural environment. By your argument humans should be omnivores, as that's what we did in the wild. I remember reading that a good estimate was humans in the wild used to consume 80% vegetation and 20% meat. And, I'm sure as hell not going to consume animal products.

I'd recommend trying a sample package of Evolution dog food. I bet your dog will love it. You can get it at http://www.petfoodshop.com or http://www.vegancats.com. If you do, be sure to soak the food. I have instructions on my blog post, here: http://vegtalk.blogspot.com/2008/02/veganizing-your-pets.html

Our pets are dying at younger ages and from awful diseases (just like we are). My dog is eight years old and everyone is completely surprised to learn that. He still acts like he's two. My vet was amazed to learn he had zero back/hip problems, as he's a big dog. I credit Evolution dog food.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:06 pm 
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I wouldn't really consider humans omnivores. Although we can obviously digest meat (although we usually need to cook it first), I think it's safe to say that before any kind of technology, meat was not 20% of our diet. Think about it, can you kill a wild bull (cow) or a wild boar (pig) without the use of any technology? Even if you could, how would you cook it without technology (fire)? I don't believe the first humans had fire, spears, knives, swords, etc. Some make the argument that since most of humanity "evolved" with technology, that determines are diet. Well when do you draw the line? If you're talking about the first humans until now, then yeah, we've spent lots of our lives with technology. But from the beginning of time, from whatever organism our ancestry started from? No way. We haven't had technology for most of our development.

http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm

That link shows the many similarities we share with herbivores. I don't think it's fair to compare humans to dogs in terms of diet. Dogs can hunt naturally, they have canine teeth (yes, we have four, but they are so small and inferior compared to most other animals' canine teeth). Dogs are much closer to carnivores in the wild than humans would be. That's just obvious in my opinion.

I'd say that any meat humans ate in the wild came from insects, the same as apes and monkeys, which are our closest relatives. Even if we taught them how to hunt, they probably wouldn't eat the raw meat.

Cholesterol that our body does not make is bad for us. The saturated fats from meat is bad for us. We don't need any of the nutrients found in meats. Meat takes way longer to digest in humans and causes so many problems that it's obvious we weren't meant to eat it. Maybe a few bugs here or there, but I certainly won't eat any.

Dogs don't die earlier from a non-vegan diet. They die earlier from living in an unnatural environment and diet (vegan or non-vegan in my opinion). As for my dog, he's about 9 or 10 (I forget) and he still runs around and acts like a puppy. I guess he's thriving off a meat-based diet? Many dogs die at that age from what I've seen.

Still open for debate, not saying I'm right or wrong. Just expressing my opinions.

Gerard

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