politics

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jonathan
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#31 Postby jonathan » Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:33 pm

two hilarious quotes my dad sent me:

"if voting actually changed anything, it would be illegal"

revolution books, new york


"if pro is opposite of con, then what is the opposite of progress? Congress!"

Men's rest-room House of Representatives,
Washington, DC

hehehe!

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#32 Postby CrispyQ » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:09 pm

Under Republicans, man exploits man.
Under Democrats, it's just the opposite.


We no longer have a government of, by & for the people, but rather, of, by & for the corporations. The 2000 election was stolen by the US Supreme Court when they decided the presidential winner without counting all the votes.

Like Jay, I believe that the 2004 election was stolen by Diebold & ESS, shills for the Republican party & their corporate masters. There is plenty of evidence supporting this outrage (see link below) & it should be blasted on every front page of every paper in our nation & should be the leading story on every news network. But not a word in our ‘liberal’ media about this travesty to our republic! Anyone who dares to bring this topic front & center is accused of wearing a tin foil hat.

We need more people to get involved at a local level. Your local Election Board is a good place to start. Another very significant position is the Secretary of State. (Remember Katherine Harris & the dreadful influence she had in the 2000 Florida election.) Also, revoking corporate personhood would be a key step in setting many, many wrongs right!

I spent 20 years totally apathetic to politics & our political process. I’m one of millions who are partially to blame for the mockery our government has become. Not anymore. I will work within the system, outside the system, any way I can.

BTW, CollegeB, Kinky Firedman was on Bill Maher a few weeks ago & I thought he was pretty right on!

===
Powerful Government Accountability Office report confirms key 2004 stolen election findings
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1529[/b]
Slavery is the fiction that people are objects; corporate personhood is the fiction that corporations are people. www.http://reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood/

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#33 Postby willpeavy » Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:45 pm

Voting does make a difference. I lived in Tallahassee FL during the last series of elections in 2004, and a lot of people get really involved there. I think this is in part because Tallahassee is the state capitol, and even though it's a relatively small town, there are two major universities there. People who value education tend to be more left leaning, and more politically active, and so the ctiy as a whole voted around 70% to the left (mostly Democrat, but also a noticeable showing of Green) last election. Also, the poll workers and others who volunteer to help the system work seem to me to mainly be people who just care about the community - they aren't the aberrant henchman of an evil conspiracy or any crap like that. Also, where I lived there weren't any signs trying to trick or scare people out of voting. In fact minority voter turn outs were high there because lots of people actually get involved instead of just complaining about how the system is broken. So the reality is that your vote will count if you make it count. If you get involved, and the community is involved it will count.

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#34 Postby veggymeggy » Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:15 pm

I agree with you Will!
I'm all about local, community involvement. (Although sometimes the small elections are the ones I know least about....like sheriff!?! He ran unopposed this year so I voted for him :))

I hate that right now I'm in a position where 90%+ of my time is already committed to things that are only beneficial to me - work and school. I am looking for ways to work more in though, especially as elections approach again. I'd love to work on local campaigns, collect signatures, whatever I have to do to help around here. Of course since I'm not registered to vote in the county in which I currently reside, I don't know how that'll work.... :?

Even when I am living down here though I always keep track of my local politics and still vote in my home county/district!

Our system isn't perfect, and it may not even be good, but it could be a LOT worse and we've got to work from within to keep things honest and improve what we can. There are good people in politics and I think there are a lot of good intentions, just somewhere along the line as power increases so does corruption. I will NOT give up my belief that that can change though!
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#35 Postby jonathan » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:09 pm

veggymeggy wrote:Our system isn't perfect, and it may not even be good, but it could be a LOT worse and we've got to work from within to keep things honest and improve what we can. There are good people in politics and I think there are a lot of good intentions, just somewhere along the line as power increases so does corruption. I will NOT give up my belief that that can change though!


please give an example of one european or developed country that has a more corrupt political system....

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#36 Postby veggymeggy » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:26 pm

jonathan wrote:
veggymeggy wrote:Our system isn't perfect, and it may not even be good, but it could be a LOT worse and we've got to work from within to keep things honest and improve what we can. There are good people in politics and I think there are a lot of good intentions, just somewhere along the line as power increases so does corruption. I will NOT give up my belief that that can change though!


please give an example of one european or developed country that has a more corrupt political system....

jonathan

I will confess to being fairly ignorant of European politics. The country I was primarily thinking of was Mexico. I just don't think because it's flawed and corrupt justifies walking away from it. I think it demands more involvement. I would rather dig in and do what I can than throw up my hands and write it off.
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#37 Postby chesty leroux » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:28 pm

She didn't say it was great, she just said it could be worse. To veggymeggy the glass is half full :D

Personally I think our politicians just exist on a different plane than the rest of the country. It's all about fame and all that crap. No one really cares what the people think. I guess that comes with having a "representative democracy". We vote for people to represent us but really they are only representing themselves, and just trying to get more power. And god forbid one of them have an environmentally friendly idea. all of a sudden they are a hippie and should be shunned. Compassionate people arent ruthless enough to seek power. I"m totally blabbing about nothing now. I should go.
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#38 Postby veggymeggy » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:35 pm

chesty leroux wrote:She didn't say it was great, she just said it could be worse. To veggymeggy the glass is half full :D

Personally I think our politicians just exist on a different plane than the rest of the country. It's all about fame and all that crap. No one really cares what the people think. I guess that comes with having a "representative democracy". We vote for people to represent us but really they are only representing themselves, and just trying to get more power. And god forbid one of them have an environmentally friendly idea. all of a sudden they are a hippie and should be shunned. Compassionate people arent ruthless enough to seek power. I"m totally blabbing about nothing now. I should go.


:D It's true, I am nothing if not an optimist. And I won't change!!!
I agree with you about compassionate people not being ruthless enough. It seems everyone who gets high up in politics is an egomaniac no matter what side they're on, and that just doesn't fit with the lifestyle we try to promote. That's why all the work has to be done at a lower level...I hope for a trickle UP effect, not vice versa!
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#39 Postby CrispyQ » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:52 pm

Veggymeggy, I don't know if you've ever read Thom Hartmann, (one of our best progressive voices, IMHO) but he states exactly the same thing -- our best opportunity to make change is at the local level.

I pay attention to my city council meetings & visit my city & county websites frequently -- to be aware of what is going on in my immediate community & get my voice out there on issues that are important to me.

It seems futile, sometimes, to start so small, but we should each remember where we started on our road to fitness & vegan-ness & where we are now.

Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
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#40 Postby veggymeggy » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:41 am

I have not read him, but it sounds interesting. I will look into it, I've been trying to do more reading lately anyway! Catch up on some classics I've missed and whatnot....right now I'm in the middle of On The Road (Kerouac) I shall put that name on the list:D
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#41 Postby Sknydpr » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:09 am

chesty leroux wrote:i like to go with Emma Goldman on this one

"If voting changed anything they would make it illegal"


That's a good one, hadn't heard it before.

The two party system is complete bullshit, I can go for hours about it, it pisses me off so much. It is entirely geared to keep anyone but mainstream politicians from becoming elected, and the Democrats and Republicans are nothing more than two sides of the same goddamn coin. Ralph Nader couldn't even get on the ballot here in Texas last year.

Plus, with the electoral college, Topher is literally correct: the individual vote means nothing in Presidential elections.

Man, it is way too late for me to start talking politics. :) Maybe I'll get back to it in the morning.

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#42 Postby jonathan » Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:16 am

veggymeggy wrote:
jonathan wrote:
veggymeggy wrote:Our system isn't perfect, and it may not even be good, but it could be a LOT worse and we've got to work from within to keep things honest and improve what we can. There are good people in politics and I think there are a lot of good intentions, just somewhere along the line as power increases so does corruption. I will NOT give up my belief that that can change though!


please give an example of one european or developed country that has a more corrupt political system....

jonathan

I will confess to being fairly ignorant of European politics. The country I was primarily thinking of was Mexico. I just don't think because it's flawed and corrupt justifies walking away from it. I think it demands more involvement. I would rather dig in and do what I can than throw up my hands and write it off.


i didnt say walking away from it was what was required. i am not a social activist, to be honest politics pisses me off really badly but i care about other things more.
social change does not start at the ballot box. it starts with grassroots resistance, demonstrations, boycotts and the like.
by voting you are condoning the system; validating it and making absolutely no difference. and that whole electoral college thing is honestly ridiculous. i do not fully understand it but as far as i am aware, each one of their votes is worth thousands of yours.

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#43 Postby Tarz » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:54 am

jonathan wrote:by voting you are condoning the system; validating it and making absolutely no difference.


Voting though is one way of changing the system. If enough people voted for radical, reformist parties who do state that they will indeed change the system, things could well change.

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#44 Postby chesty leroux » Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:29 am

Sknydpr wrote:
chesty leroux wrote:i like to go with Emma Goldman on this one

"If voting changed anything they would make it illegal"


That's a good one, hadn't heard it before.

The two party system is complete bullshit, I can go for hours about it, it pisses me off so much. It is entirely geared to keep anyone but mainstream politicians from becoming elected, and the Democrats and Republicans are nothing more than two sides of the same goddamn coin. Ralph Nader couldn't even get on the ballot here in Texas last year.

Plus, with the electoral college, Topher is literally correct: the individual vote means nothing in Presidential elections.

Man, it is way too late for me to start talking politics. :) Maybe I'll get back to it in the morning.


I love Emma Goldman. :D

Ya Nader didnt get on the ballot here in Virginia either.

Veggymeggy, tell me how On the Road is when you finish it, Ive been meaning to read it!
If I can't dance, I don't want any part of your revolution - Emma Goldman

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#45 Postby veggymeggy » Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:35 am

http://www.salon.com/books/review/2005/ ... ndex1.html

Just another article related to the whole stolen election thing
Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams,

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