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 Post subject: Re: What religion do you associate yourself with?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:13 pm 
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Manatee
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kollision wrote:
1. What were you born into?
2. What are you now?
3. What made you change? (if you did)
4. What are your ideas on religions in general?


1. I was born into the Church of Christ, the son of an ordained minister. I don't think I missed 17 Sunday services the first 17 years of my life, and shortly before I joined the Navy and moved away from home, I was attending Sunday morning services (Baptist) with my parents, Sunday evening services (Assemblies of God) with friends of mine, Catechism classes on Thursday evenings, and Saturday evening Mass by myself. While I stopped going to church shortly after I left home, having grown disillusioned with the behavior of the other members during the other six days of the week, I still was fairly religious up until age 27 or so.

2. Stone cold "you die, you're dirt" atheist.

3. Not gonna go into the details, but some events in my life made me ponder just how loving and benevolent "our father" really is. I realized that there were really only two possibilities. Either he's not nearly as loving as I'd been led to believe (normally I phrase that a bit differently), or he didn't exist. I couldn't believe the former, so I had to go with the latter. Once that veil was lifted, so to speak, the situation became much clearer.

4. I think Jesse Ventura pretty much had it nailed. At best it's a panacea for those who need one, at worst it's a reason to hate everyone who doesn't believe the same way you do.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:51 pm 
What religion do you associate yourself with?

If by religion you mean "a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance." Then my religion is equality. In fact, you might call me a zealot of equality.

However, I don't associate with "a particular system of faith and worship," if that's what you mean by religion. I am agnostic -- just agnostic. Not warm and fuzzy agnostic, purple and yellow polka-dot agnostic, backwards Tuesday agnostic, or any of the other silly things people can think of to place before the term agnostic. (For the record, I'm sure purple and yellow polka-dot agnostic might be wonderful people -- I'm just not that kind of agnostic.) :P


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 Post subject: Re: What religion do you associate yourself with?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:19 am 
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tylerm wrote:
...I just prefer that organized religion stop influencing my life and the laws I have to abide by.



You can say that again! I'm sick that the religious zealots have such influence in our government & are trying to change the very fabric of our country. I keep my religion, or lack of it, to myself. They should do the same.

I wonder, sometimes, if their desire to convert/control the rest of us stems from an unconscious lack of faith or lack of confidence in their belief system. They are certainly some of the most hypocritical & hateful people I've seen in action. Their whole agenda makes me retch.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:24 am 
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on a lighter note, this is possibly the funniest thing in the entire world:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/

jonathan

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 Post subject: Re: What religion do you associate yourself with?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:43 am 
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Elephant
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kollision wrote:
1. What were you born into?

Greek Orthodox
kollision wrote:
2. What are you now?

I *think* I am Greek Orthodox with my own beliefs (reincarnation, ghosts, etc.) I also try to respect others' beliefs and not bash them if they don't hurt anyone human and nonhuman, etc.
kollision wrote:
3. What made you change? (if you did)

I may be Christian, but I'm not stupid -- I question things and can be a bit irreverant.
kollision wrote:
4. What are your ideas on religions in general?
I agree with willpeavey, veggymeggy and tylerm. Church and state should always be kept separate. IMO it's the people who try to control other people that are to blame -- not God, Jesus, Allah, Buddha, the Great Spirit, etc.

(And I probably would've been laughing my a#@ off if I heard jonathan's and Richard's "choirizations." :roll: :lol: )

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 Post subject: responding to the original questions
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:58 pm 
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1. What were you born into?

My parents are both very intellectual and liberal, so the climate in our house was very much about learning, questioning, and taking social responsibility. They are both Christians, but we were never forced to do anything or believe anything. We were encouraged to explore religion on our own if and when we wanted to.



2. What are you now?

I attend an Episcopal church.


3. What made you change? (if you did)

Choosing to believe was both an intellectual and experiential journey. I ended up going to the Episcopal church that I go to because I really like the main dude- and the church itself is aesthetically amazing. Also, as an organization, the Episcopal church is socially progressive.


4. What are your ideas on religions in general?

Their major problem is they involve this thing called "humanity." If it weren't for people, they'd be a lot better off.


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 Post subject: Re: responding to the original questions
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:01 pm 
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Secretninjanut wrote:
4. What are your ideas on religions in general?

Their major problem is they involve this thing called "humanity." If it weren't for people, they'd be a lot better off.


Amen.
:)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:48 pm 
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I think my mother was christian. I remember when I was little there were these american basketball playing dudes that displayed Jesus on the TV and put grease in my hair. I later came to the understanding that I at that moment had become a mormon (is a mormon a christian?). I never really understood what a mormon was but they were nice and they had peanut butter so I didn't think much of it.
Nowadays I consider myself a christian, allthough I never go to church. I have no rational explenation for it, it just feels right.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:05 pm 
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I am confused about what other people are meaning by agnostic and atheist. Using my definition, it seems straight forward. But using other people's definition, I'd have to say like:

"I am an agnostic who doesn't believe in fate, God, The Bible, Any afterlife, Zeus, The virgin birth, leprechauns, zombies, dracula, teleportation, levitation, out of body experiences, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, the zodiac, santa claus, the easter bunny..."

My definition covers all that, it's concise. If an agnostic or an atheist CAN believe in any of those things, then what's the word for someone who DOESN'T believe in those things? I thought that was the point of the word, that you don't believe in stuff which doesn't have evidence?

"I'm a virgin, and also I haven't had sex from the front, or from behind, or sideways, or upside down, or in a tree, or in a car"

No no no no no... a virgin covers all that, same way an atheist or agnostic covers all the voodoo stuff, done and dusted right?

Anyway, if I am wrong, which is possible, then what word is there, or do I really need that list to accompany the word 'agnostic'?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:36 pm 
Richard wrote:
"I am an agnostic who doesn't believe in fate, God, The Bible, Any afterlife, Zeus, The virgin birth, leprechauns, zombies, dracula, teleportation, levitation, out of body experiences, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, the zodiac, santa claus, the easter bunny..."

My definition covers all that, it's concise. If an agnostic or an atheist CAN believe in any of those things, then what's the word for someone who DOESN'T believe in those things? I thought that was the point of the word, that you don't believe in stuff which doesn't have evidence?

Thank you, Richard, I was thinking the same thing. Agnostic should cover all you wrote and more. You shouldn't have to put any qualifier before agnostic. Just like you shouldn't have to say:

"I am a vegetarian who doesn't eat aardvarks, abalones, acorn worms, ... zebras, zebra mussels or zorillas. I don't eat their milk, eggs, sweat, blood, horns, hooves, skin, hair, excrement, bile... I don't eat them morning, noon or night. I don't eat them Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday or Sunday. I don't eat them on New Years, Valentines, St. Patrick's ... Winter Solstice, Hanukka or Christmas. I don't eat them whether I'm happy or sad. I don't eat them in a house, or with a mouse. Ad nauseam."

Vegetarian=non-animal diet
Agnostic=no knowledge of supernatural

Simple, concise. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:34 pm 
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Richard wrote:
I am confused about what other people are meaning by agnostic and atheist.


Agnostic = doesn't know whether supernatural beings exist
Atheist = believes that supernatural beings don't exist

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:41 pm 
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willpeavy wrote:
Richard wrote:
I am confused about what other people are meaning by agnostic and atheist.


Agnostic = doesn't know whether supernatural beings exist
Atheist = believes that supernatural beings don't exist


Yeah that's what I think makes most sense, with regards to definitions. What's confusing me is when people say that an atheist can be buddhist or jewish etc. I guess I deal in absolutes, like the Sith.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:13 pm 
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Richard wrote:
Yeah that's what I think makes most sense, with regards to definitions. What's confusing me is when people say that an atheist can be buddhist or jewish etc. I guess I deal in absolutes, like the Sith.


I don't know very much about Buddhists. But secular Jews (or Jewish atheists/agnostics) are basically a cultural group, similar to how some people identify as being African-American, or Hispanic, etc. A person coming from a certain heritage could be Jewish and atheist in the same way that someone from a different heritage could be African-American and atheist.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:30 pm 
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I can see that, but why would it be brought up in a religion thread in that case? It's like saying "So what religion are you?".. "Yeah I'm white". It's like, okay, it's not a religion, whatja talking about

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:45 pm 
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Basically, Judaisim is a religion by itself. Theres no such thing as being called a Jew as your race, thats like calling a person Muslim by their race. Most Jews today are just Europeans. The real Semetic people, that Judaism would be associated with, are not as big as the Jews of today.

As Will and Aaron pointed out (from what I understand), is that people claim Jew as their culture, but that shouldn't be confused with their race. More than likely, if they are a Jew, they are White by race, and Jew by either Culture or Religion.


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