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 Post subject: Little dirty secret of dairy farms
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:09 am 
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Rabbit

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:15 pm
Posts: 172
Maybe you don't throw newborn male calves in dead pile alive and let them freeze to death or starve to death but when every time you eat dairy products, you are responsible for little dirty secret of dairy farms.

Here is true news story of male dairy calf who was dumped in dead pile alive because he was worthless to dairy farmer.
Story of Mario
www.farmsanctuary.com/media/pr_mario.htm

Story of Andy
One fine Spring day, just before Mother's Day two years ago, little Andy was born. A beautiful, baby calf, weighing only 30 pounds. His large, doe-like eyes looked to his mom for first time.

A young girl had gotten her fist job working part-time, after school at a dairy farm near the U.S. - Canada border.
When Andy's mom began to give birth, it was the first time she'd ever witnessed anything born.
She was in tear when the baby came - and then to her horror, the farmer took Andy adn threw him behind a barn, on top of a "dead pile" of other baby calves who were taken away from their mothers at birth, at let to die.
She couldn't believe what she saw.
The young girl quickly called her favorite teacher, the one who helped her get her the job. Her teacher came over to the farm and with the help of the young girl, they snatched baby Andy off of the pile of calves and put him in the back seat of her car!

They didn't know what to do with a little calf, still covered in afterbirth, umbilical cord still dangling from his pink tummy- so they called Safe Haven for farm animals (name is changed to protect calf) for help.

What this brave young girl witnessed is WHAT HAPPENS EVERY DAY ON NEARLY EVERY FARM ACROSS THE COUNTRY - CALVES ARE EITHER THROWN AWAY LIKE GARBAGE, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO VALUE, OR THEY'RE ENSLAVED IN SMALL CRATES TO BE SOLD FOR VEAL.
You see, calves are the "by-product" of the dairy industry - to give milk, dairy cows must be kept pregnant. There are no "magical" milking cows or hormones that can be given to make them milk. They are you or me - mammals who must be pregant to develop milk, to feed their young.

What can we do?
Don't eat veal-and drink soy or rice milk instead. wean yourself off of dairy products. After all, no other animal on earth drinks the milk of another animal - nor drink milk past infancy. We are the only animal who consumes another mammal's milk and drink it into adulthood it is NOT natural and not what was intended.
The pain and suffering that goes into a glass of milk or a slice of cheese pizza isn't worth it. Andy was saved - but literally millions of calves and cows suffer and die everyday.
You can start making a difference today by where you spent your consumer dollars.
Make this Mother's Day one to celebrate all life.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/no ... ssage/2000


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:24 pm 
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Elephant

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:57 pm
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Location: Portland, OR
So is there not a dairy farm that isn't crap... like some of my neighbors have hens that lay eggs that they eat right? I don't see them as abusive...? Is that possible to get milk without treating animals poorly?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:30 pm 
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Elephant
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Aaron wrote:
So is there not a dairy farm that isn't crap... like some of my neighbors have hens that lay eggs that they eat right? I don't see them as abusive...? Is that possible to get milk without treating animals poorly?


On the commercial farms they usually take the calf away from the mother after 3 days, and then sell the mother's milk. I think I know what you mean though about some people having hens but not treating them poorly. You might be able to do something similar to that with a cow if you let her calf nurse first, and then squeezed a little extra out for yourself.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:51 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:15 pm
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Knowing only way for dairy farmers to get milk from cow is to make her pregnant year after year and as soon as calf is born and if he is male, farmers take new born male baby from mother cow and throw in dead pile alive and let him starve to death or freeze to death.
Most people stop eating veal today therefore not many calves are end up in veal factories.
When dairy farmers know that they cannot make any profit by keeping male calves, they kill these worthless calves in most inhumane ways without spending a penny.
Dirty little secreat of dairy farms is something nobody wants to speak about among dairy farmers but any Animal Rights activist who is knowledgeable about chilling brutality in dairy farms are well aware of this little dirty secret of dairy farms.
More than few years back, HSUS investigated McArthur Farm Inc in state of Florida where calves were kicked from truck in ditch filled with water and shot to death with pistol.
Many calves got shot several times and still tried to get out from muddy bloody water.
Needless to say they all drowned to death!
Do you think taken away newborn calf from mother cows when every time she have calf is humane?
Have you ever heard sad cry of mother cows who are frantically looking for her calf while her calf is way to veal factory or thrown in dead pile alive and freezing to death or starving to death?
As soon as cows stop producing milk to please dairy farmers these cows are going to turn to steaks and hamburgers.
Only cows who are lucky enough to escape slaughter house are cows in farm animal sanctuary.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:54 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:15 pm
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Knowing only way for dairy farmers to get milk from cow is to make her pregnant year after year and as soon as calf is born and if he is male, farmers take new born male baby from mother cow and throw in dead pile alive and let him starve to death or freeze to death.
Most people stop eating veal today therefore not many calves are end up in veal factories.
When dairy farmers know that they cannot make any profit by keeping male calves, they kill these worthless calves in most inhumane ways without spending a penny.
Dirty little secreat of dairy farms is something nobody wants to speak about among dairy farmers but any Animal Rights activist who is knowledgeable about chilling brutality in dairy farms are well aware of this little dirty secret of dairy farms.
More than few years back, HSUS investigated McArthur Farm Inc in state of Florida where calves were kicked from truck in ditch filled with water and shot to death with pistol.
Many calves got shot several times and still tried to get out from muddy bloody water.
Needless to say they all drowned to death!
Do you think taken away newborn calf from mother cows when every time she have calf is humane?
Have you ever heard sad cry of mother cows who are frantically looking for her calf while her calf is way to veal factory or thrown in dead pile alive and freezing to death or starving to death?
As soon as cows stop producing milk to please dairy farmers these cows are going to turn to steaks and hamburgers.
Only cows who are lucky enough to escape slaughter house are cows in farm animal sanctuary.

I am sorry, I carelessly hit submit twice.


Last edited by violet13 on Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:55 pm 
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Stegosaurus

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 3110
willpeavy wrote:
Aaron wrote:
So is there not a dairy farm that isn't crap... like some of my neighbors have hens that lay eggs that they eat right? I don't see them as abusive...? Is that possible to get milk without treating animals poorly?


On the commercial farms they usually take the calf away from the mother after 3 days, and then sell the mother's milk. I think I know what you mean though about some people having hens but not treating them poorly. You might be able to do something similar to that with a cow if you let her calf nurse first, and then squeezed a little extra out for yourself.


With all due respect to both of you, would you go up to a lactating woman even AFTER she has finished nursing her baby and try squeezing her tits to "get a little extra for yourself" ? :shock: Try it and see how it works out for ya. :twisted:


I am not persuaded that BOVINE mammals should be accorded any less respect, especially since you simply do not need her milk in order to survive, but only to humor your tastebuds. Not a very compelling or substantial reason in my opinion. Animals have the right not to be molested in any way by humans simply for cullinary pleasure. I see no compelling reason why vegans should not hold on to that firmly both in theory and in practice, and I see no reason to complicate or obscure that axiom by carving out exceptions for frivilous reasons. That seems imprudent to me at best. So I say "hands off the bovine tits. period." :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:38 pm 
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Elephant

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:57 pm
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Location: Portland, OR
CG you're fun, you know that?

I'm not planning on any milk for myself thanks. And I'm not into the feeling up cows. Just thinking about vegetarians I know or may know in the future.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:41 pm 
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compassionategirl wrote:
With all due respect to both of you, would you go up to a lactating woman even AFTER she has finished nursing her baby and try squeezing her tits to "get a little extra for yourself" ? :shock: Try it and see how it works out for ya. :twisted:
...

So I say "hands off the bovine tits. period." :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


Wonderfully said, Nat! I couldn't agree more! And Violet13, thanks so much for bringing up a topic that I think too many are horribly unaware of.

I was ignorant of the cruelty of the dairy industry for many years, wrongly thinking that the animals were not killed and that it was in the interest of the industry to provide a good environment for the dairy cows. How naive I was. Then I learned about the veal industry and about how they keep the dairy cows pregnant for most of their lives with the help of a contraption commonly referred to as the rape rack. It was then that I could no longer stick my head in the sand about this horrid industry.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:41 pm 
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Elephant
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compassionategirl wrote:
would you go up to a lactating woman even AFTER she has finished nursing her baby and try squeezing her tits to "get a little extra for yourself" ? :shock: Try it and see how it works out for ya. :twisted:


No I wouldn't go up to a lactating human woman and squeeze her breast, and I don't think that's the same as milking a cow. I'm not sure if you've been around cows before or not, but I used to work on a cattle ranch when I was a teenager, and most cows really don't seem to be bothered when you milk them a little bit by hand. I think what's wrong is how on commercial farms they are pumped up on hormones, hooked up to machines, artificially inseminated, have their calves taken away after three days, etc. I personally don't want to drink cows milk because I think it was meant for calves to drink, not humans. But if someone with a large yard keeps a couple of cows, treats them well, and drinks a little of their milk I really have no problems with that. Sorry, you'll just have to be angry at me. I've had this discussion 8 gazillion times with people before and that's the way I feel about it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:39 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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willpeavy wrote:
compassionategirl wrote:
would you go up to a lactating woman even AFTER she has finished nursing her baby and try squeezing her tits to "get a little extra for yourself" ? :shock: Try it and see how it works out for ya. :twisted:


No I wouldn't go up to a lactating human woman and squeeze her breast, and I don't think that's the same as milking a cow. I'm not sure if you've been around cows before or not, but I used to work on a cattle ranch when I was a teenager, and most cows really don't seem to be bothered when you milk them a little bit by hand. I think what's wrong is how on commercial farms they are pumped up on hormones, hooked up to machines, artificially inseminated, have their calves taken away after three days, etc. I personally don't want to drink cows milk because I think it was meant for calves to drink, not humans. But if someone with a large yard keeps a couple of cows, treats them well, and drinks a little of their milk I really have no problems with that. Sorry, you'll just have to be angry at me. I've had this discussion 8 gazillion times with people before and that's the way I feel about it.


Will,
No i have never been around an actual cow before. But with all due respect concerning this "didnt seem to be bothered" thing, just because cows generally are docile, submissive animals short of fear or panic on their part, and just because they cannot speak human language to tell a human "Keep your mits off my tits", that doesnt mean they wouldnt if they could. And, since we can never know for sure if it is okay with her if we can milk her tits, I wouldnt feel comfortable helping myself to her tits or her milk.

I believe that the concept of indignity isnt reserved exclusively for human animals.

And, by the way, I KNOW you and Aaron wouldnt go up to a lactating woman and squeeze her tits. It was obviously a rhetorical question, meant to show the arbitrariness of our some of our ethical boundaries -- if it isnt cool to do it to a human, why is it okay to do it to a bovine mother? Because she doesnt speak human language to be able to express her lack of consent, and because her body language appears to suggest permission?

Why sanction the taking of her milk for frivilous reasons like cullinary pleasure? I dont see how that can be reconciled with her rights Will. And yes, I suppose I feel uneasy about the idea of sanctioning even minimal and seemingly innocuous human infringement upon the rights of animals. Can you blame me, in view of the fact that humans have just helped themselves to 'anything animal' since almost the beginning of human history? I think it is time we start making up for that, if that is even possible -- and we have DAMN long way to go. :cry: I believe that this is something that our species OWES non-human animals.

And no, I'm not mad at you -- so long as you dont join the ranks of the moral relativists on this forum, we're good. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:55 am 
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Elephant
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willpeavy wrote:
But if someone with a large yard keeps a couple of cows, treats them well, and drinks a little of their milk I really have no problems with that.

But would the cows be producing milk in this scenario? Don't they need to be (or have recently been) pregnant in order to produce milk?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:15 pm
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Your welcome CrispyQ.
I drove my car with bumpersticker printed WWW.NOTMILK.COM message but because stickers start peeling off, I need to order new sticker.
I wish everybody on this forum is going to carry message of WWW.NOTMILK.COM to let millions of people to know chilling brutality in dairy industry and danger of drinking white poison.

The reason why I never buy dairy products is because knowing dirty little secret of dairy farms, if I continue consuming dairy products, I am no better than dairy farmers who throw new born male calves in dead pile alive and let them to freeze to death or starve to death.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:19 pm 
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Rabbit

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willpeavy, even small family owned dairy farms must make cows pregnant to get milk.
What happen to male calves do you think?
If they are not shipped to veal factory, farmers throw them in dead pile alive to get rid of them!
Diary farmers never spend extra $ to kill unwanted male calves humanely when they know calves are not going to bring $ to them.
Dairy farmers who put worthless male calves to sleep are one in thousands because almost all dairy farmers view cows and calves as nothing but money making machines, crops, production unit, etc and not as pet.
I don't know about other countries but in America, there is no law to protect farm animals in state or federal level and farmers can kill their farm animals in any kind of ways as long as animals are killed in their own farm.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:37 pm 
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You can't get consent from an animal to take their milk, that's the most basic thing which is wrong with taking the milk in my opinion. Other stuff may or may not happen on 'humane' farms. But the consent thing is universal, it's always theft.

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