Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

Healthy Food Defines You
It is currently Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:22 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:39 am 
Offline
Gorilla
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:37 am
Posts: 800
Location: NSW, Australia
I know a lot of vegan products have it as an ingredient but i never took it seriously till now.Even the palm oil they say is sustainable, Is that just the same thing but tying to sugar coat it?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:45 am 
Offline
Stegosaurus
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:44 pm
Posts: 3463
It isn't good for your health either.

_________________

"The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:15 pm 
Offline
Manatee
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:41 pm
Posts: 472
Location: SF
There are sustainable palm oil sources - http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/red_palm_oil.htm

This unrefined version of the oil is also very high in vitamin A and E. It and coconut oil are probably the safest vegan cooking oils (at least for high temperature cooking) because there's no risk of the creation of transfats that you might encounter with oils like canola.

Also, saturated fat is known to boost testosterone.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:20 pm 
Offline
Elephant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:10 pm
Posts: 2357
Location: Bakersfield, CA, USA
vegimator wrote:
Also, saturated fat is known to boost testosterone.

And heart disease. So you can't have the good without the bad it seems....

_________________
Learning how to be compassionate, gain wisdom, and love life.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:32 pm 
Offline
Manatee
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:41 pm
Posts: 472
Location: SF
Fallen_Horse wrote:
vegimator wrote:
Also, saturated fat is known to boost testosterone.

And heart disease. So you can't have the good without the bad it seems....


Not all sources of saturated fat are known to cause heart disease.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15329324
http://journals.lww.com/smajournalonlin ... and.3.aspx
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17513403
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20871763

The antioxidant palmitic and lauric acids found in veg. saturated fats seem to give them beneficial effects on blood lipids. At least as long as you're not eating trans fats. If you're eating trans fats, palm oil has been shown to increase bad cholesterol and lower good.

Also, palm oil has shown potential in cancer prevention -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21121862


Last edited by vegimator on Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:48 pm 
Offline
Stegosaurus
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:44 pm
Posts: 3463
It is important for vegan to use omega 3 rich oils like canola and olive oil while avoiding omega 6 oils( most other oils, chips, fries, crisps, pre-packaged backed goods ).

There are other sources for anything palm oil might have.

_________________

"The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:58 pm 
Offline
Manatee
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:41 pm
Posts: 472
Location: SF
beforewisdom wrote:
It is important for vegan to use omega 3 rich oils like canola and olive oil while avoiding omega 6 oils( most other oils, chips, fries, crisps, pre-packaged backed goods ).

There are other sources for anything palm oil might have.


Yes, it's important to get plenty of omega 3s but it's best to get them in the form of uncooked oils (on their own, in smoothies, in nut butters with flax oil, salad dressings etc).

It's important not to use omega 3 rich oils like canola (olive is actually very low in omega 3s - it's touted for its high monounsaturated fats) for cooking at high heat because the omega 3s are broken down and produce carcinogens when cooked. Palm oil is extremely low in omega 6 fats (which are polyunsaturated) and won't upset your 3:6 ratio.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:23 pm 
Offline
Elephant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:10 pm
Posts: 2357
Location: Bakersfield, CA, USA
vegimator wrote:
Fallen_Horse wrote:
vegimator wrote:
Also, saturated fat is known to boost testosterone.

And heart disease. So you can't have the good without the bad it seems....


Not all sources of saturated fat are known to cause heart disease.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15329324
http://journals.lww.com/smajournalonlin ... and.3.aspx
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17513403
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20871763

The antioxidant palmitic and lauric acids found in veg. saturated fats seem to give them beneficial effects on blood lipids.

Also, palm oil has shown potential in cancer prevention -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21121862


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15329324
This refers to coconut oil versus copra oil, not simply adding coconut oil to the diet. All it shows is that ingesting coconut oil is healthier than ingesting copra oil.

http://journals.lww.com/smajournalonlin ... and.3.aspx
This is a study done on dark chocolate, not saturated fat. Just because a food is overall healthy doesn't mean that all of the ingredients in that food are healthy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17513403
This is a study done on pholyphenol compounds from cocoa powder, not adding saturated fat to a diet.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20871763
There isn't anything terribly wrong with this study, unless you count that the testing was done on diabetic rats.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21121862
This was a study regarding tocotrienols extracted from palm oil, not the consumption of palm oil itself.


Now if you can find me some studies with healthy humans eating a healthy diet and THEN adding saturated fats to the diet, I would love to see the results. Until then I am gonna stick with flax seeds and avocados for my dietary fat sources.

_________________
Learning how to be compassionate, gain wisdom, and love life.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:37 pm 
Offline
Manatee
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:41 pm
Posts: 472
Location: SF
Both dark chocolate studies involved feeding substantial quantities of chocolate, rich in saturated fat, to people and noting the positive effects on their cholesterol.
"Just because a food is overall healthy doesn't mean that all of the ingredients in that food are healthy."
This is more or less my point. The same seems to be true of palm oil however. If it was purely saturated fat then it would probably not do great things for your cholesterol. But it's half saturated, half monounsaturated and (at least in its virgin form) is loaded with antioxidants.

"This was a study regarding tocotrienols extracted from palm oil, not the consumption of palm oil itself."
But it happens that palm oil is extremely rich in those tocotrienols.

Let's hear your problems with this study-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20095133

"In spite of its level of saturated fatty acid content (50%), red palm oil has not been found to promote atherosclerosis and/or arterial thrombosis. This is probably due to the ratio of its saturated fatty acid to unsaturated fatty acid content and its high concentration of antioxidants such as beta-carotene, tocotrienols, tocopherols and vitamin E. It has also been reported that the consumption of red palm oil reduces the level of endogenous cholesterol, and this seems to be due to the presence of the tocotrienols and the peculiar isomeric position of its fatty acids. The benefits of red palm oil to health include a reduction in the risk of arterial thrombosis and/or atherosclerosis, inhibition of endogenous cholesterol biosynthesis, platelet aggregation, a reduction in oxidative stress and a reduction in blood pressure. It has also been shown that dietary red palm oil, taken in moderation in animals and humans, promotes the efficient utilisation of nutrients, activates hepatic drug metabolising enzymes, facilitates the haemoglobinisation of red blood cells and improves immune function. This review provides a comprehensive overview of the nutritional, physiological and biochemical roles of red palm oil in improving wellbeing and quality of life."

Here's another overview -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14506001

And another -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11045075

"It is now evident that not all saturated fatty acids are equally cholesterolemic. Recent accounts evaluating palm oil's effects on blood lipids and lipoproteins suggest that diets incorporating palm oil as the major dietary fat do not raise plasma total and LDL cholesterol levels to the extent expected from its fatty acid composition. Palm oil is endowed with a good mixture of natural antioxidants and together with its balanced composition of the different classes of fatty acids, makes it a safe, stable and versatile edible oil with many positive health and nutritional attributes."

Another -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1345319

"Palm oil, an essential fatty acid-sufficient tropical oil, raises plasma cholesterol only when an excess of cholesterol is presented in the diet...Anomalously, palm oil differs from other of the more saturated fats in tending to decrease thrombus formation. Finally, in studies comparing palm oil with other fats and oils, experimental carcinogenesis is enhanced both by vegetable oils richer in linoleic acid content and by more highly saturated animal fats. The carotenoid constituents of red palm oil are potent dietary anticarcinogens. A second group of antioxidants, the tocotrienols, are present in both palm olein and red palm oil. These vitamin E-active constituents are potent suppressors of cholesterol biosynthesis; emerging data point to their anticarcinogenic and antithrombotic activities. This review does not support claims that foods containing palm oil have no place in a prudent diet."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:09 pm 
Offline
Elephant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:10 pm
Posts: 2357
Location: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Meh, I would like to read the first and last articles to see if they actually did any research on humans, or more precisely, where they are getting their claims. For the middle two, they were funded by The Malaysian Palm Oil Board and The Palm Oil Research Institute of Malaysia, both groups that I am sure LOVE palm oil, since their livelihood depends on it.

Look, I still stand by my previous statement. I have no reason to believe that palm oil is better for the body than fat from unprocessed foods like flax seeds and avocados. But to each their own I suppose! :supz:

_________________
Learning how to be compassionate, gain wisdom, and love life.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:23 pm 
Offline
Manatee
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:41 pm
Posts: 472
Location: SF
I certainly eat flax and avocados too. Show me a research paper saying that palm oil is unhealthy in the absence of dietary cholesterol.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:13 am 
Offline
Elephant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:10 pm
Posts: 2357
Location: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Show me any study done with vegans and palm oil and I will be impressed.

_________________
Learning how to be compassionate, gain wisdom, and love life.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:39 pm 
Offline
Manatee
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:41 pm
Posts: 472
Location: SF
Fallen_Horse wrote:
Show me any study done with vegans and palm oil and I will be impressed.


I think the onus is on you to show any relevant studies at this point.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 6:30 pm 
Offline
Elephant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:10 pm
Posts: 2357
Location: Bakersfield, CA, USA
No, the burden of proof is on the believer. You believe palm oil is good for the body, and in order to make that an accurate claim you need to prove it with unbiased, well-researched studies. If I want to prove that palm oil is bad, then I can look up studies as well, but I don't need any studies to know that a whole food is healthier than a processed food. Perhaps palm oil is the healthiest oil, that's fine, but it still can't beat good old fashioned whole foods...

_________________
Learning how to be compassionate, gain wisdom, and love life.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Palm Oil
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:32 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 6065
Location: England
Words like "healthy" are very vague, and in such a specific conversation it can become difficult to understand where each other is coming from, when you're discussing what is "healthy" before defining what that is. I mean, kale and other green vegetables are some of the foods with the highest vitamin / calorie ratios (as far as I know), but that doesn't mean that anything with a lower vitamin / calorie ratio should not be ingested because it's less healthy than something else. Similarly with these oils, I mean what's the goal? Are you going to really cut out a food entirely from your diet if there is another type of food which is healthier in your eyes? I know that all foods are different and you can't normally directly compare them and say that 1 is "better" in all areas, but even if you could, just for variety I imagine that you'd eat the less optimal foods when you felt like it just for variety. It wouldn't mean they are doing your body harm necessarily, when you look at your diet as a whole.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  



{ ASACP_CREDITS }
{ ASACP_CREDITS }
{ ASACP_CREDITS } Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group