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 Post subject: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:06 am 
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Gorilla
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Location: Belgrade, Serbia
I know that "true" vegans don't use honey, since it's animal product, but can someone explain what's the big deal about it?
I know in large-scale honey production they don't care much if they kill some bees in the process of collecting honey, but here where I live, you buy honey mostly from the small beekeepers, and those are the people who would never hurt bees, since my grandfather was one, and I know how much he adored bees, and how careful he treated them.
Anyway, I don't eat honey, but recently I was writing an article for a magazine about colony collapse disorder, which increased here since they have started to use BAYER pesticides, and the beekeepers told me that bees as species are endangered and are almost eradicated. This is bad for the whole ecosystem, since bees pollinate most of the plants (we eat). They said to me that in order to make thing better, more and more people should keep bee hives.
Now I'm wondering if I'm actually doing wrong by not buying honey and supporting beekeepers...
What do you say?

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 Post subject: Re: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:33 am 
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I heard this some time ago, and it doesn't surprise me. i tried to keep a hive when i was little(i love bugs!!), wasps take over the nest sometimes and it's heartbreaking:(I like their dance when they find something everyone needs to see.

If they did that to my hive, and with the lack of habitat it wouldn't be a shock that poor little honey bees aren't thriving.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:37 am 
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Presumably it's possible to keep bees without stealing their honey. If it is a matter of money, and if it's a necessity to keep bees in order to keep the species alive, then it should be subsidized by the government.

To not buy honey is a non-action, I don't think a person can be to blame for it. So to say "by not buying honey..." is to say that you should buy a certain quantity, how much is expected etc?

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 Post subject: Re: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:07 am 
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Location: Florida
Since I don't need honey and bees get angry if I try to take it from them I let them keep it. It's just a matter of not taking something from another creature just because I like it.

Bee keepers don't care about bees, the same as dairy farmers don't care about cows and egg farmers don't care about chickens. They are being used as a means for profit.


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 Post subject: Re: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:13 am 
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Manatee
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vege wrote:
I know that "true" vegans don't use honey


This is why I dont call myself one. Kind of seems silly after eliminating 99% of animal products from my diet though, not like you can ever get to 100%.


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 Post subject: Re: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:12 am 
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goob wrote:
Since I don't need honey and bees get angry if I try to take it from them I let them keep it. It's just a matter of not taking something from another creature just because I like it.

Bee keepers don't care about bees, the same as dairy farmers don't care about cows and egg farmers don't care about chickens. They are being used as a means for profit.

Well I think the point is that if bees face extinction, then we would be screwed without them, therefore we would need to maintain their population.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:52 pm 
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Richard wrote:
goob wrote:
Since I don't need honey and bees get angry if I try to take it from them I let them keep it. It's just a matter of not taking something from another creature just because I like it.

Bee keepers don't care about bees, the same as dairy farmers don't care about cows and egg farmers don't care about chickens. They are being used as a means for profit.

Well I think the point is that if bees face extinction, then we would be screwed without them, therefore we would need to maintain their population.


The bees aren't dying off because we don't take enough of their honey. It's that we are spraying poison on everything. The only way to really save the bees is to stop with the poison, but that isn't going to happen any time soon.

There are already some "bee reserves" in various places away from pesticides where people don't gas the hives and steal the honey. Those are very different than local bee farmers trying to guilt people into buying honey from them "to save the bees." Also, there are many remote places where wild bees live undisturbed by humans.

The reason I have issues with keeping beehives as a means of preservation is that you have to either support commercial bee keepers or disturb wild colonies to start a new "protected" colony. And, it does not fix the problem, which is that people have not learned that poison is dangerous and they very well may kill everybody before they figure it out.

Bees can be reintroduced to areas where human ignorance and greed has killed off the native species, but they will just die as well if we keep spraying pesticides. What will probably happen is that some scientist working for bayer or monsanto or some other chemical company will genetically engineer bees to be immune to the pesticides we keep dumbing on everything and we end up with a "killer bees" situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:56 am 
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Gorilla
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Location: Belgrade, Serbia
GM bees?! Never occurred to me, but I guess that's possible, too:((( Who knows what sick minds can invent. We're screwed.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:17 pm 
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I don't like the idea of crushing bees! Just so I can have something sweet, doesn't sound sweet to me, it sounds cruel.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:45 pm 
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I eat raw organic honey. And I always believe that if another Vegan is really against me eating honey they should quit eating anything that has been produced with the use of insecticides. (For our health, and the health of the planet we should anyhow - but it IS pretty hard to live 100% organic vegan in this society). Oh and car tires..... we just cannot win.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:12 am 
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VeganResistance wrote:
I eat raw organic honey. And I always believe that if another Vegan is really against me eating honey they should quit eating anything that has been produced with the use of insecticides. (For our health, and the health of the planet we should anyhow - but it IS pretty hard to live 100% organic vegan in this society). Oh and car tires..... we just cannot win.

Honey is very easy to live without, and by comparison, as you say, living 100% organic and without car tires is very hard. That is why you presumably have people telling you to stop eating honey, since it's as simple as that, whilst the things you compare it to are not.

I don't think you should worry about what other people are doing, or not doing, there's no need to compare yourself to them, you should do what you think is right.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:34 pm 
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I don't consider insects animals, they are insects. So I will eat their food.
Oh and btw, the bee's aren't being killed by pesticides, they were doing fine until the secret UN program for solar shielding started in the mid-90s called chemtrails. Look it up online. They spray particularized aluminum and barium which f*ck up the bee's radar system and also kills them.

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 Post subject: Re: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:52 pm 
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Elephant
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Rob_T wrote:
I don't consider insects animals, they are insects. So I will eat their food.
They're animals by definition

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 Post subject: Re: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:05 pm
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Location: Florida
It doesn't matter if you consider insects animals or not. They try to protect themselves and their honey, that means we shouldn't try to take it. If you don't care about exploiting creatures that try to protect themselves then you aren't vegan. I don't understand why so many people want to be called vegan so badly, but don't actually believe in the philosophy.

Also, chemtrails are fake. It's made up conspiracy theory bullshit.


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 Post subject: Re: Honey, I am confused!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:23 pm 
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goob wrote:
Also, chemtrails are fake. It's made up conspiracy theory bullshit.


Chemtrails aren't fake, same with weather modification.
That's just your opinion.
Perhaps you've already made up your mind that the government loves you and would never do anything in secret. :roll:

Anyways leave discussions like this for another thread.

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