Now that Osama is dead....

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Fallen_Horse
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Re: Now that Osama is dead....

#16 Postby Fallen_Horse » Mon May 02, 2011 11:34 pm

Actually when I started the thread I was referring to the corporate spending problem, the national debt, the failure of the public schools, the current occupations, the destruction of the environment, etc. I feel that Osama's death is a strong symbolic gesture, but otherwise it's meaningless....
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Re: Now that Osama is dead....

#17 Postby chrisjs » Tue May 03, 2011 8:57 am

Fallen_Horse wrote:Actually when I started the thread I was referring to the corporate spending problem, the national debt, the failure of the public schools, the current occupations, the destruction of the environment, etc. I feel that Osama's death is a strong symbolic gesture, but otherwise it's meaningless....
Well of course not. Most of those things are not related to terrorism, except maybe part of the national debt debt to military expenses and of course occupation.

But considering that he was found in a country we're not occupying, well...

What's this corporate spending problem you speak of? If anything, there's much more of a government spending problem that needs to be addressed.

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Re: Now that Osama is dead....

#18 Postby Fallen_Horse » Tue May 03, 2011 1:34 pm

chrisjs wrote:What's this corporate spending problem you speak of? If anything, there's much more of a government spending problem that needs to be addressed.

Uh oh, should we really sidetrack this thread? :D
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Re: Now that Osama is dead....

#19 Postby vege » Tue May 03, 2011 2:05 pm

I think we should! We can name it New world order propaganda, or at least "Alleged death of Osama Bin Laden and The Royal Wedding as recent means of diverting the attention of masses from the real problems in this world and people who are causing them...

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Re: Now that Osama is dead....

#20 Postby beforewisdom » Tue May 03, 2011 3:42 pm

I've been in the middle as far as the reactions to the Bin Laden killing go.

I haven't been dancing in the streets or feeling the urge to shout joyfully about it.

I have also found the posts from people looking down on those expressions of joy to be a bit sanctimonious.

Some people say that Americans should behave better than the Palestinians and other Easterners who danced in the street after 9/11. I agree. I also think it is important to distinguish that the people dancing after 9/11 were celebrating the deaths of several thousand innocent, ordinary people. The buffoons celebrating Bin Laden's killing are celebrating the death of a terrorist.

There are many people in Al Queda left, not to mention many other enemies. I don't think for a moment Bin Laden's death will produce peace. During 9/11 I lived a few miles from the Pentagon. I could just have easily been taking a trip to NYC or been on any of those planes. I or someone I know could have just as easily been killed to satisfy a trustfund baby's anger at his rich parents. I do feel his death has been a positive development.

I usually enjoy conversing with European and vegans. Most of the time, they tend to look at things in a more sophisticated way than carnists or the average American do. I was disappointed to find both these groups talking down this event. I've noticed a tendency in both groups to have people who tend to "talk down their own team". That isn't how good things are built.

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Re: Now that Osama is dead....

#21 Postby VeganEssentials » Tue May 03, 2011 5:26 pm

In agreeance with beforewisdom on this one. I don't expect this to really bring any peace, and who knows if it will bring more "bad" with it, but to know that the man is gone does make me feel marginally better, even if it makes little or no difference in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not celebrating as it won't undo what brought this all about in the first place, but I'm certainly not going to mourn the death of a man who helped orchestrate a terrible mass murder as if he deserves any sympathy whatsoever. Some people can only make the world a better place once they've left the building, and OBL is certainly one of those folks. If all reports are true regarding the way he was buried at sea in accordance with religious custom, that sadly is more dignity than anyone who died at the 9/11 attacks received in their moments after dying. For that, those who feel sorry for OBL can consider it his "parting gift" to show that even in the face of the person we considered our single worst enemy, we STILL treated things with more respect than he or his followers would have ever given us.

Now, to see how this plays out with Pakistan and the allegations that they'd known all along that he was being harbored for safety in their nation...
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Re: Now that Osama is dead....

#22 Postby vege » Thu May 05, 2011 12:59 pm

I am really amazed how you take for granted what you see on TV and read in press and then create your various "opinions"... Have you ever thought about possibility that most of the things in media actually weren't true, and that you were being manipulated?

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Re: Now that Osama is dead....

#23 Postby Fallen_Horse » Thu May 05, 2011 1:07 pm

vege wrote:I am really amazed how you take for granted what you see on TV and read in press and then create your various "opinions"... Have you ever thought about possibility that most of the things in media actually weren't true, and that you were being manipulated?

Meh, it very much depends on the media. Fox News? Manipulation (although subtle). NPR? Not so much.

My point is that you have to get the news somehow, and saying 'they are all biased, screw it' is not a better way to stay informed than listening to the news and trying to understand the spin they use...
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Re: Now that Osama is dead....

#24 Postby vege » Thu May 05, 2011 1:28 pm

Fallen_Horse wrote:
vege wrote:I am really amazed how you take for granted what you see on TV and read in press and then create your various "opinions"... Have you ever thought about possibility that most of the things in media actually weren't true, and that you were being manipulated?

Meh, it very much depends on the media. Fox News? Manipulation (although subtle). NPR? Not so much.

My point is that you have to get the news somehow, and saying 'they are all biased, screw it' is not a better way to stay informed than listening to the news and trying to understand the spin they use...

I actually watch CNN and BBC :wink: , but in a weird way: when they say "black" I hear "white" and vice versa. So, try this mechanism with their news on Osama Bin Laden, war on terror and 9.11 attacks - and you will get the idea about my opinion on the whole thing.

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Re: Now that Osama is dead....

#25 Postby vivalasvegans » Thu May 05, 2011 1:37 pm

The dude has already died 3 or 4 times already. This is indicative of him being a domesticated feline, in which case he still has at least 5 more lives. I wonder how he will go next time... exploding cigar? an anvil dropped on him from a cliff? also, i heard he was spotted in a denny's on an interstate in iowa.
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Re: Now that Osama is dead....

#26 Postby bronco » Thu May 05, 2011 2:19 pm

beforewisdom wrote:If *any* of those are your editor you are fighting the battle that time forgot. Almost everyone on some kind of unix has a GUI and access to nicer tools. For the sysadmin on some clunker box from the past who needs to edit a few lines in a file ne is so modern and friendly nobody would even bother having a debate.

This might be slightly off topic, but... I use emacs daily for work, if there is a nicer tool that can do all the things emacs can I would like to hear about it :) . I also use vi extensively whenever I have to edit something over ssh, which is also more or less daily. GUIs are overrated.

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Re: Now that Osama is dead....

#27 Postby Tarz » Sun May 08, 2011 4:26 pm

There has been quite a lot of outrage in the UK - admittedly from the usual suspects: Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, the Archbishop of Canterbury - about whether OBL was assassinated, had already surrendered when shot etc and whether OBL should have been taken prisoner.

I think it was the right decision as can you imagine the bloobath and hostage situations that would ensue as his followers would try to ensure his release... How many more Daniel Pearl's, Nick Berg or Ken Bigley's would there have been if OBL was held in custody?

Also his death was instant rather than deciding whether to be incinerated or jump from 100 floors up. I doubt many of the Americans here would of followed the 7/7 attacks in London too closely, especially six years on, but the inquests were concluded just 48 hours ago and again OBL's death was much cleaner and quicker than slowly bleeding to death in some hot, dark and acrid tunnel.
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Re: Now that Osama is dead....

#28 Postby Fallen_Horse » Sun May 08, 2011 5:24 pm

bronco wrote:This might be slightly off topic, but... I use emacs daily for work, if there is a nicer tool that can do all the things emacs can I would like to hear about it :) . I also use vi extensively whenever I have to edit something over ssh, which is also more or less daily. GUIs are overrated.

No love for vim?
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