Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

Healthy Food Defines You
It is currently Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:59 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Meat eating evil?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:49 pm 
Offline
Elephant

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 2783
So would anyone here say meat eating is evil? Or should another term be used? Have you dealt with anyone who resented being called evil or told meat eating was wrong and then tried to blame you for environmental degredation (since the rainforest is being cleared to grow it), or claiming you care more about animals than people.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:26 am 
Offline
Elephant
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 3:33 pm
Posts: 2293
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
My nerd self always turns to the dictionary when deciding if a word is appropriate. In this case I would say Evil and Meat Eating go very well together.

e·vil
adj. e·vil·er, e·vil·est

1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
4. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
5. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:35 am 
Offline
Elephant

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 2783
They fit together even better than I had thought! I've never looked evil up in the dictionary. Thanks Michael.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:42 pm 
Offline
Rabbit
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:01 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Ventura, CA
Def #1 is probably the most common.

Morally bad or wrong... hmm. Why would eating meat be (necessarily) morally bad or wrong?

Suppose on snowy, winter night, a doe jumps in front of my car. I hit my brakes, slip on the ice, and accidently kill it. Is the accident immoral? Or was it just an accident? Would I be evil if I cut up the (already) dead dear and ate it? Might some people think that God had provided food for them and their families?

I can think of many reasons to cut back on meat in my diet, even eliminating it altogether. But I don't think anyone ever changed their behavior because somebody told them they were evil. Logic and compassion are much better motivators.

It is all to easy to hide behind labels and think that others are evil (whether they eat meat or practice a different religion, or dress funny). The real challange is to understand their point of view and be able to explain your own ideas in terms they can understand.

Sorry for ranting, but I think we all need to pull together and work towards a common goal, instead of splintering into various squabbling factions. The survival of our race and maybe that of the planet may depend on it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:13 pm 
Offline
Stegosaurus

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 3110
Hey Sirdle,

Not just the survival of our OWN species, but the others with which we share it as well. Vegans are concerned not only about their own health, and that of the planet, but also care very deeply for animals. :wink:


Certainly, however, we need to do whatever it takes to get through to people. If Joe Blow is not convinced that "Speciesm" is like a cancer in this world, but, instead, is more receptive to ideas of compassion and kindness towards innocent animals, than certainly that is the language that we should use to get through to Joe Blow.

Also, just to give you a heads up, as you have already gathered, while pretty much all vegans agree with the core principles (i.e. animal rights), there is division with respect to strategies and tactics. So one vegan's idea of the best way to encourage veganism is not necessarily representative of all vegans. Please keep that in mind always. I mention this because I am not sure if you are vegan or not, new to animal rights or not, but if you read something here with which you dont agree, dont let that turn you off from veganism or animal rights, or even from posting on this board.

great to have you here :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:36 pm 
Offline
Rabbit
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:01 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Ventura, CA
Thanks for your thoughtful reply, compassionategirl! :P

No, I am not vegan. Not even vegetarian :oops: , but I am thinking about these issues and struggling with decisions in my own life... setting priorities, and working on action plans. Trying to exercise, eat better, work less, and spend more time with my wife and friends.

I found this website in passing, looking for bodybuilding tips, and I feel myself being drawn in by the compassion and perceptiveness of many of the posts.

My 11-yr old vegetarian niece came for a visit last week. That was quite a treat. (One day she woke up and decided she was vegetarian... Her parents are quite supportive but are struggling to make sure she gets all the vitamins and minerals she needs.) My wife and I spent the week discovering wonderful foods...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:52 pm 
Offline
Stegosaurus

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 3110
sirdle wrote:
Logic and compassion are much better motivators.



Fair enough. But, if we really want to call a spade a spade. Generally, people eat meat to indulge their tastebuds and their lust for animal flesh. Most of the world is not in the extreme hypothetical situation which you present.

SO WHY BOYCOTT MEAT?

1) YOU DONT need meat to survive; it isnt even good for you. The longest running heart study in the world (I think it was called the Framingham study) concluded that vegetarians are less likely to develop scary diseases. Other studies back this up, and it is also backed up by common sense. YOU eat all the crap that the animals were fed, which includes diseased animals that werent fit for human consumption, steriods, antibiotics, hormones, etc etc. and Lord knows what else. :shock: Animal flesh is devoid of real nutrients, and only really offers protein and iron. Well, you can get protein and iron in much healthier alternatives to meat that dont carry the same dangers as does meat.

And, the human body is not physiologically designed to digest animal flesh. In other words, we arent even natural carnovires at all, which surprises many peopple. This assertion is supported by anthropological evidence, and good ol' common sense. Click here to read fast anthroplogical facts supporting the beleif that we are not designed to eat meat. What you read might surprise you: http://www.bizarro.com/vegan/vegan_carnivores.htm


2) The selfish and gluttonous human demand for animal flesh causes the suffering of BILLIONS of innocent and young animals a year, which never know even a MODICUM of human kindness, are ripped apart from their young, mutilated, sadistically tortured, raped, trucked off to slaughter in scorching hot and frigildy cold temperatures for HOURS long trasnports with no food or water. They thirst, they trample on each other, they stand amidst their own waste. It is horrible, and it is cruel. These animals are not TOY animals nor are they widgets. Chickens are social, inquisitive animals that develop relationships with other chickens. Cows are among the most gentle and passive animals in the world. Pigs are social and intelligent animals that have been shown to play video games better than three year old children!!!! The only tyhing that should matter, though, is that they all have the capacity to suffer as much as I do, and as much as you do. Above all, they are innocent and so they deserve better, especially from a "superior" race like humans, who have an ethical responsibility to confront the morality of their actions when they are doing these things to weak, voiceless beings who are powerless to defend themselves against this evil.

3) Eating meat is killing our environment. Raising animals for food causes more water pollution than ANY OTHER INDUSTRIAL USES COMBINED, is responsible for over 85% of all top soil erosion in the US alone, and causes 130 times the excrement of the ENTIRE human population. That is a lot of piss and crap to burden the environment with!!!!!!!!!!!! WE have no right to rape and pillage the environment, and if we continue to do so, we are signing are own death certificates. Enviromental destruction will lead not only to the extinction of many species of animals, but also to our own. When are people going to understand that when we hurt the environment, we are inevitably hurting ourselves, not to mention thousands of precious ecosystems and animals that once extinct, are lost to future generations forever. We need to beyond our own generation! It is very likely, for example, that my great grandchildren will never get to see a real polar bear because they will have become extinct by that time. What a tragedy that would be.


4) Veganism can also help to alleviate world hunger. Converting grains to meat is inefficient. With the grain it takes to make one steak - that is one piece of steak - 12 people can eat a plant-based diet!!!!!!

I can go on and on about why people should go vegan. Right here, right now.

REASONS TO NOT STOP EATING MEAT

1. Because it tastes good. Well, I am not going to deny that I use to love meat. But, knowing that my lust for animal flesh was supporting an EVIL industry (and make no mistake that the meat and dairy industries are evil and care only about maximizing profits. NOT about consumer health or basic animal welfare) was too much for my conscience to bear.

The bottom line is that the suffering of billions of animals, environmental destrcution, etc etc, are WAY more important than pleasing human palates.

So people should go vegan. There is no COMPELLING or REASONABLE excuse not to. The only thing that prevents people from going vegan is selfishness and greed. And I want no part of that. Not when the price for the environment and for animals so high.

For a brief one page summary of why I too went vegan, visit:

http://www.bizarro.com/vegan/vegan_why.htm.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:07 pm 
Offline
Stegosaurus

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 3110
hey Sirdle,

It looks like we are on at the same time!!

Okay, so you arent vegan or even veg. You are still obviously very welcome on these boards. I hope you stick around, join in discussions, and I sincerely hope that you are inspired and motivated - for whatever reasons that move you - to take an important first step towards veganism soon.

Vegetarianism is that good first step. Maybe you and your neice can support each other?

One thing is for sure - this is by far the healthiest and cleanest way to live, if you become veg in an informed manner. I recommend a book called "Becoming vegan" even if you arent one yet. Your neice, even as a veg, should definietly research and read that book so she makes sure she is doing this right. And, we are here to answer any of your questions or your neices questions about health and fitness. She should join this board too!! It is truly an amazing place- even I learn so much here on a daily basis, and forum topics really get you examining your heart, mind and soul from time to time. Self-examination and self-reflection really keeps one in check :wink:


But guys like Robert, who has been vegan for over 10 years now, is a living breathing example of how healthy and strong you can be on a vegan diet. he puts many meat eaters I know to shame!!!!

peace :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:13 pm 
Offline
Stegosaurus

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 3110
One last thing about "priorities" since you mentioned it.

For the longest time, what kept me from going vegan was the sentiment that "there are so many important human causes to work for".

Well, the fact of the matter is that you can help the planet and animals everytime you sit down to eat by simply skipping animal flesh, dairy and eggs. This takes no extra time and you can continue working, just like you did before, on whatever other causes you deem to be more important.

being vegan or vegetarian takes nothing out of your schedule and it doesnt take any time away from other causes that you could be working on.

So, many otherwise decent people unfortunately get seduced by this "there are more important things to worry about" line of thinking, but in reality, this is a false notion for reasons noted above.

peace :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:36 pm 
Offline
Stegosaurus

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 3110
sirdle wrote:
....but I am thinking about these issues and struggling with decisions in my own life... setting priorities, and working on action plans. Trying to exercise, eat better, work less, and spend more time with my wife and friends.

......
My 11-yr old vegetarian niece came for a visit last week. That was quite a treat. (One day she woke up and decided she was vegetarian... Her parents are quite supportive but are struggling to make sure she gets all the vitamins and minerals she needs.) My wife and I spent the week discovering wonderful foods...


We've all been where your at right now.

I wish my relatives were as supportive as your neices parents are! I came from a very meat and potatoes kind of family, and I think Robert came from a family that was involved in animal agriculture!!! (correct me if i am wrong robert!!!). But, honestly, the bottom line is that somewhere deep down inside, I think almost all people know that it is wrong in this day and age to kill animals for food. Some people fight that feeling there whole lives and try to barry it ir rationalize meat eating in to themselves, while others simply cannot ignore the burden that begins to weigh heavily on their consciences are they become more aware and more educated on the issues.

BUt I must admit that your niece being so young and already so compassionate is very impressive. I congratulate her for being so caring and attune to the sensitivity of the planet and other creatures at such a young age, and I also congratulate her parents for recognizing that a compassionate, sensitive daughter with an evolved sense of conscioussness to something to be proud of and encourage. And yes, they should make sure she is getting all her nutrients. There are several resouces and books that talk about raising veggie kids, or going vegetarian, and you can certainly invite your neice's parents to post any questions or concerns right here in this forum. We would be pleased to do our best to answer them!!

For a FREE vegetarian starter kit, please visit www.goveg.com, fill in the free veggie starter quit request, and check it out! You have nothing to lose. Actually, that site is packed with resources, and info about making the transition correctly, veggie nutrition, and fun facts!!! So navigate it and enjoy!!

peace :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:38 pm 
Offline
Rabbit
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:01 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Ventura, CA
Hey Compassionategirl,

Isn't it kinda late there?

The example that I gave was totally hypothetical. I was trying to think of a case in which eating meat would not necessarily be "evil."

I totally agree with paragraphs numbered 1, 3, and 4. I have known about these arguments for years, but they never convinced me to change my behavior... I am not sure why. I guess I believed that #1 would affect me only, and #3 and #4 could be theoretically offset with a greater reliance on technology. So there was no sense of urgency.

#2 however, is different. Clearly there is a moral issue here, that I could ignore as long as I did not think about it. The more I think about it, however, the more I realize the need to make a decision. (Torture and rape? Are you exaggerating for effect, or is this true?) My neighbor has a dozen free range chickens (no roosters) on her 5-acre property. They seem pretty happy and they are certainly well cared for and protected from predators. I guess I don't have a problem with occasionally eating their unfertilized eggs... but I certainly agree that the corporate chicken/cattle/pork factories are inhumane and, in that sense, evil.[/i]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:51 pm 
Offline
Rabbit
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:01 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Ventura, CA
I'll point my niece's parents to this site and recommend the sources you list.

Actually, I think my niece's decision to be vegetarian started as a whim. But as more and more people asked her why? she thought about it more and more. So now she is pretty well informed and committed!

I think you are wrong when you say changing to a vegan lifestyle doesn't take any more time than not being vegan. There can be, and in my case there is, a huge learning curve. I grew up in a family where "cooking" meant opening a can of something and heating it up on the stove. Getting to where I could buy and store fruits and vegetables in my house was a big step. Of course now it doesn't take any more time. (Can you believe that I didn't know that spaghetti was made from a grain? Or that pickles weren't grown in the wild? Or that potatoes didn't come in a box? Or that spinach was a green leafy vegetable?)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:13 pm 
Offline
Stegosaurus

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 3110
I LUV THAT PICTURE you are so cute!!!!!! Honestly, you were one good lookin' kid. Okay, now on to your very reasonable questions. :D

When I said tortured and raped, that is exactly what I meant. here are some specifics, but this only begins to scratch the surface:

Animals are routinely drowned in scalding water while still fully conscious. This is because more often than not chickens are not propertly stunned, and the killing line certainly doesnt stop for humane consideration. The meat industry cares about profit and quota. Not about the excruciating pain that an animal being drowned in scalding water feels. Just the other day I was boiling some water and accidentally some of it splashed on me. The pain was indescribable. Imagine what it must feel like to be DROWNED in boiling water. :cry: And the terrified animals doesnt understand what is going on and is powerless to defend herself. :cry:

That the killing line is not stopped for humane consideration has been confirmed to me by people that I know who actually worked in a slaugherthouse, and I think one of Brendan's friends (Brendan posts here can also vouch for this as he too use to work inside of a slaugherhouse). :cry:


After conception, a sow (female pig) is imprisoned in a gestation stall. She remains in this stall for about 16 weeks, giving the producer total control over her. To counter her stress, the sheds are kept dark except at feeding time. While the sow is inactive, she is "limit fed" once every two or three days, to hold down her weight and save money. :cry:

About a week before her piglets are due, the pregnant sow is moved to a farrowing stall. here she is restricted for another 2-3 weeks after her piglets are born. She cannot walk or turn around. The only thing she can do is lie down or stand up to keep her in position for eating , drinking, and keeping her teats exposed to her baby pigs. Breeding sows are incarcerated into farrowing crates in this way, pinned down between metal bars, unable to walk or mother her piglets. The "factory farms" are designed for maximum exploitation of the animals, who never see daylight until their trip to the slaughterhouse. :cry:

the newborn pigs receive injections of iron, antibiotics, their tails get cut off, and their ears notched for identification purposes. They get their teeth PULLED OUT WITH PLIARS, young males are usually castrated before weaning all with never any pain killers. . 2-3 weeks after birth, the piglets are taken to be fattened for market. The mother is immediately impregnated and sent back to the gestation stall to begin this hellish "cycle" (aka torture) all over again. :cry:

VEAL

Crated veal factories are among the harshest confinement systems. Veal producers take newborn calves AWAY from their mothers within hours of being born and chain them in crates averaging 22" wide by 58" long. Over a million calves spend their entire lives in solitary confinement unable to scratch, stretch their legs, or turn around until they are hauled off to slaughter. Suffering from chronic diarhea, standing in their own waste, deprived of solid food or water, the calves are fed only a diet of artiifical liquid feed, which includes growth stimulators, antibiotics, and mold inhibitors. YUP you read that right MOLD INHIBITORS. Their unnatural food and confinement is aimed at producing the anemic, pale-colored meat sold as high-priced "prime" or "milk-fed" veal.
:cry:
One veal factory inspector writes: " We visited a milk-fed veal factory in Connecticut. Though it was broad daylight outside, the calves' rooms were pitch dark; our guide explained that darkness helped keeped the calves quieter. The lights were turned on at feeding time when the producer made his rounds. In two rooms, more than a hundred calves were crated in rows of wooden stalls. Their eyes followed our movements. Many tried to stretch toward us from their stalls in order to suckle a finger, a hand, or part of our clothing. The farmer explained, "They want their mothers, I guess." :cry:

Animals used for food are specifically exempted from anti-cruelty laws in many states. And there is no federal law to ensure that farm animals have proper care, suitable living conditions or protection from abuse and cruelty. :cry:

CATTLE

After several months on the range, cattle are transported to feedlots crowded with tens of thousands of animals where they are fattened up as quickly as possible to a market weight of 1000 pounds. In combination with commercial growth promotants, the cattle are fed corn and soy meal. To reduce costs, some feed lots add cardboard, newspaper, sawdust, chicken and pig manure, industrial sewege, oils, and even cement dust to animals feed, not to mention ground up animal. In fact, mad cow disease arose because cows were being fed ground up carcusses of sick cows, even though all farmers know that cows are vegetarian animals! They know, but they dont care enough about consumer or animal health to do act on this knowledge. :cry:

Cattle are routinely castrated, dehorned and hot-iron branded without painkillers or anaesthetics. Their screams of pain and torment are real and audible to their tormentors. Unfortunately, nobody listens, nobody cares. :cry:

Dairy cows perhaps have it worse. After a few years of constant impregnation and calf and milk production, the worn out cow is trucked off to the slaugherhouse. Because her exhausted body is not suitable for steaks, chops, and other cuts, she ends up a hamburger in a fast food chain. "Downers", the most vulnerable of the vulnerable, often exhausted dairy cows or breeding sows, too sick or weak to walk on their own, are often dragged by chains to the killing line or just discarded to a slow and miserable death. :cry:

After years of physical and pychological abuse in the above ways, cows are shipped off to slaughter with no food or water in extreme weather temperatures. AT the slaugherhouse, they are often hung upside down from a hook and delimbed (i.e. have their limbs hacked off) while fully conscious. :cry:

CHICKENS

In poultry, cannabilism resulting from overcrowding is controlled by routine debeaking. This began around 1940, when a San Diego poultry farmer found that if he burned away the birds' upper beaks with a blowtorch, they were unable to pick and pull at each others feathers. His neighbour caught on to the idea, but used a modified soldering iron instead. A couple of years later, a local company began to manufacture the "debeaker", a machine that sliced off the chicks' beaks with a hot iron blade. This is EXCRUCIATINGLY painful for a chick, as her beak is one of the most sensitive parts of her body. Imagine somebody putting a blowtorch to your lips!! The agony that you would feel is no different than what these animals experience - billions of them every year. :cry:

And, to make matters even more appalling, the beaks of birds are sloppily cut. An excessively hot blade causes blisters in the mouth. A cold/dull blade may cause the development of a fleshy, bulb like growth at the end of the mandible. Such growths are very sensitive. Some debeaked birds do not grow to full size because beak tenderness makes it hard for them to eat and drink, and so they starve. :cry:

Eggs are taken from the hens and placed in an oven to hatch. After hatching, half of the chicks, the males, who dont lay eggs, are literally thrown away. At one such hatchery, "chick pullers" weeded males from each tray and dropped them into heavy duty plactis bags. The guide explained: "[b][b]We put them in a bag and let them suffocate. A mink farmer picks them up and feds them to his mink[/b][/b]."

Speaking of minks and all animals murdered for their fur. One typical method for killing fur bearing animals is genital electrocution. Yup, you read that right. They have "devices" shoved up their genitals only to be fried to death on the inside, so their fur on the outside remains in tact so designers like Christain D'ior and people like Jennifer Lopez and Biance can walk around feeling "glamorous". Not to mention the animals caught in leg-hold traps, in pain for days, exposed to the elements, who often chew off their own paws to escape the terror!!! of course, being handicapped and injured in this way makes them easy prey for other animals in the wild, so they suffer and die, or are ripped apart by anotehr predator. What a horrible way to do. Or, baby seals who are clubbed to death in front of their frantic mothers, an atrocity which after being outlawed for many years, has been reintroduced by the pathetic government and greedy fishermen in my country. :cry:

Back to the chickens though.

Chickens, can live as long as 15 years. In the modern egg factory, hens lived less than two years, warehoused in battery cages stacked from floor to ceiling. All their natural instincts are thwarted by being crammed into tiny cages with other birds. Please dont think that many chickens and hens are treated the same humane way that your friend treats hers. This line of thinking is grossly inaccurate.

Finally at the slaugherhouse, numerous undercover exposes of chicken suppliers like Tysons and Pilgrims pride, even kosher places, have been caught on tape inflicting the most vile and sadistic evil acts on defenseless, innocent and gentle animals. Workers were caught spitting tobacco in chicken's eyes, smashing their heads with pipes, shoving the heads of weak and sickly birds up the but of another so as to form a "chicken chain" and then to yank them apart again, just for fun. Accounts from former slaugherhouse gone vegetarian workers confim that crulety like this is the norm rather than the exception in the industry. :cry:

As Paul McCartney and his wife said, if slaughterhouses had glass walls, we would all be vegetarian.

Animals in laboratories are force fed bleach, have corrosive substances dripped into their eyes after being strapped down with their eyeballs pinned open so that cannot move or blink. Many break their necks and backs trying to escape the pain. All this so L'oreal can come up with a new shade of haircolour to maintain "market share", or Proctor and Gamble can come up with a new scented Mr. Clean product. I cringe when I see commercials for these products on tv because i am all too aware of what it has meant for animals. :cry: :cry:

Fish suffer excruciating decompression followed by suffocation when hauled from the deep seas. They just dont have vocal chords to voice their pain. I know I wouldnt enjoy being hooked in the mouth and being impaled. Its gotta hurt. And, fish are by far the most defenseless of animasl, with no arms, no vocal chords, nothing.They are utterly at the mercy of humans who refuse to see them for the smart and social animals that they are and want to think of them as only food. :cry:

Please consider going vegan, or at least vegetarian as a first important step. It is the BEST way to ensure that you are not supporting any of the heartbreaking atrocities above.

But, dont take my word for it, check it out for yourself:

www.farmsanctuary.org
www.cok.net
www.whyvegan.org
www.DawnWatch.com


Meet your Meat (petatv.org)
The Witness (tribeofheart.org)

Animals hve as much capacity to suffer as do you and I. They can feel loneliness, sadness, happiness and fear (as pet animals have shown us). And, many animals have a bond to their offspring too. Just try to get near a bear cub when his mommy is around and you will quickly agree :shock: Calves long for the comfort and warmth and security of their moms. The moms wonder what happened to their calves.

I will end with this piece from Ronald Sklar:


There are moral issues here that we refuse to recognize. When one group with the power to advance its own self-interests exploits a group completely lacking in power, the powerful group has to face the question of the morality of its conduct. It was that way with slavery; it is that way with our use of animals. As Mr. Scully writes: "When a quarter-million birds are stuffed into a single shed, unable even to flap their wings, when more than a million pigs inhabit a single farm, never once stepping into the light of day, when every year tens of millions of creatures go to their death without knowing the least measure of human kindness, it is time to question old assumptions, to ask what we are doing and what spirit drives us on."

As a society, we haven't asked those questions. If we were at least to admit that there is a moral issue, and that we need to open a dialogue among ourselves about the extent to which we can continue this exploitation, it would be a start toward a new plane of human existence.



Call it a "right" as do American law professors Tom Regan and Steven Wise; call it a "basic moral principle" as does Princeton philosopher Peter Singer in his seminal book, Animal Liberation, or call it "common human decency and kindness," as does Matthew Scully.

Whatever we call it, it's now time to give to the non-human animals that share this world with us the humane consideration they deserve.

And let's not wait until we have to watch mass cow slaughterings on television.


So you see, this is why many vegans are angry and frustrated with the world who refuses to act to put an end to this mass murder, torture and rape.

And i hope you can also understand, even if you dont quite agree, why many vegans will not hesitate to describe the support of any of the above cruelties as evil.

But, I do beleive that most humans on this earth arent evil. Just misguided and uninformed. That is why we need to open up people's eyes to the dirty little secrets that animal exploiters wish to hide from public scrutiny. We need to inform people, and once they see the suffering, once they hear the cries of terror and pain, then I know they will be guided to veganism by their own consciences, and they will never look back!! :D


peace


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:15 pm 
Offline
Stegosaurus

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 3110
sirdle wrote:

I think you are wrong when you say changing to a vegan lifestyle doesn't take any more time than not being vegan. There can be, and in my case there is, a huge learning curve. I grew up in a family where "cooking" meant opening a can of something and heating it up on the stove. Getting to where I could buy and store fruits and vegetables in my house was a big step. Of course now it doesn't take any more time. (Can you believe that I didn't know that spaghetti was made from a grain? Or that pickles weren't grown in the wild? Or that potatoes didn't come in a box? Or that spinach was a green leafy vegetable?)


Fair enough! :D But once you learn the basics, its a piece of cake (vegan cake, that is :wink: ).

peace 8)

P.S. I will be visiting a few friends in Cali soon (including Kollision, who is also from Cali - maybe you guys live near each other?)

anyway, maybe we could all get together one night for some vegan cuisine! :D

natalie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:37 am 
Offline
Rabbit
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:01 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Ventura, CA
Thanks for the details, Natalie... very persuasive!

A couple of questions and comments:

Quote:
I LUV THAT PICTURE you are so cute!!!!!!

Thanks, I wish I were still that cute. :( I will be again after 12 months on my new program, though!

Quote:
To reduce costs, some feed lots add cardboard, newspaper, sawdust, chicken and pig manure, industrial sewege, oils, and even cement dust to animals feed

How can that reduce costs? If there are no nutrients in the feed that can be converted to fat, how can this be beneficial at all? Is this due to poor quality control? Are there nutrients, of a sort, in these substances that the cattle can convert to fat? Or am I missing something?

Quote:
they are often hung upside down from a hook and delimbed (i.e. have their limbs hacked off) while fully conscious.

Is this because the were not killed on the killing line, or do you think this represents sadism on the part of the workers?

Quote:
Animals in laboratories are force fed bleach, have corrosive substances dripped into their eyes after being strapped down with their eyeballs pinned open so that cannot move or blink. Many break their necks and backs trying to escape the pain. All this so L'oreal can come up with a new shade of haircolour to maintain "market share", or Proctor and Gamble can come up with a new scented Mr. Clean product.

I don't understand this at all... oh, wait. You moved from food prep to product testing, didn't you? These are methods that Proctor and Gamble, et al, use to test their products before releasing them to the public?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  



{ ASACP_CREDITS }
{ ASACP_CREDITS }
{ ASACP_CREDITS } Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group