But I think where Nat and Michael are coming from is that our human intelligence allows us to move beyond the cat-and-mouse view of survival. We can still get all the nutrients we need and reduce the impact on the environment by changing our diet. But by keeping our diets as they are we encourage and, in fact, help create the demand that drives the killing-for-profit food industry. Encouraging these practices to continue, and providing monetary support for the same, is what they consider "evil".
(Nat and Michael: I hate to put words in your mouths, so correct me if I misunderstood your posts.)
Hey Sirdle, well said!!!
Wow, for somebody that isnt vegan yet, you sure are a great animal advocate
In fact, I couldnt have said it more succinctly myself. Cannot speak for Michael, but what you have I pretty much meant, yes - with only one further qualification - ethical vegans beleive that animals have rights - that they are not ours to eat anymore than the next door neighbour. So animal welfare - that animals should be eaten so long as they are killed humanely - is not a :vegan" belief. (But that wefarist posture is certainly better than somebody who doesnt care at all about how animals are tortured).
Tdouglas, the point is that we are not generally in a life or death survival situationas you describe, and thus, there is no ethical justification for eating meat. We do it to indulge our appetities, our tastes. It is gluttonous self-indulgence and we should expect and try for better than that because animals are completely at human mercy. And, humans, being the "superior" species, should know and do better. WE have the ability to reason, and to know the difference between right and wrong. And knowledge isnt just power, but obligation. Just because a cat tortures a mouse, that is hardly a justification for us eating Turkey at Thanksgiving or any other time for that matter.
"An animal’s inability to understand and adhere to our rules is as irrelevant as a child’s or a person with a developmental disability’s inability to do so. Animals are not always able to choose to change their behaviors, but adult human beings have the intelligence and ability to choose between behaviors that hurt others and behaviors that do not hurt others. When given the choice, it makes sense to choose compassion." As the species with the capacity for moral, rational thought and behaviour, we have the obligation to do so. With 'superiority' or greatness, afterall, comes responsibility - one that humans who like the taste of animals like to ignore.
I beleive that empathy and compassion are what can heal this world. Put yourself in the other being shoes, and do as you would wish them to do.
As one person said, "All beings tremble before violence. All fear death. All value their own lives. See yourself in other living things
. Then who can you hurt? What harm can you cause?"
Veganism isnt about perfection or personal purity. As has been stated at nauseaum on other threads, it is about reducing suffering.
Please read the following threads on this site as they may be of interest:
"Why are you vegan", "What does veganism mean to you" "Vegan Elitism" , "Think God would be vegan",
You will see that people have different perspectives, some of which may anger you, some of which you may agree with, some of which you came to eventually believe and understand.
But, ethical vegans beleive that animals have the right to live their lives free of human molestation, and they reject speciesm. I have written elsewhere that genocide of my people has caused me to be in the position to see, clearly than most others, that "They are inferior because they are different" attitude is a cancer in this world
that needs to be eliminated if we ever truly will know peace. This applies to animals too. It requires a paradigm shift, but if humans have already demonstrated the capacity for such a shift in consciousness and in the realtionship between people and animals, then there is hope.
Okay now maybe I will let another ethical vegan step in so I dont monopolize this thread. Cant help it - i am passionate about compassion for animals.
And lastly, while you may "treat" yourself to Turkey on Thanksgiving, please remain mindful that Thanksguiving is no treat
for the animals that are violently murdered for their tasty flesh.
may ALL innocent beings be happy and free of suffering,
EDITTED TO ADD: OOPS I WENT TO SUBMIT THIS AND SAW THAT YOUR CLARIFIED YOUR POSITION.