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 Post subject: Am I the only one this happens to?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:19 am 
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Rabbit
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Whenever I go to a Taco Bell and ask for a "bean burrito with out cheese" they repeat the order back to me - "you want a bean burrito with no beans." Somedays I want to say yes just to see what they would give me.... but that'd be a waste of cheese because I wouldn't eat it.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:14 am 
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Gorilla
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I always get wacky things that happened to my order at taco bell. they always through cheese on it and miffed my order up everytime.
I stopped getting bean burritos w/ no cheese from taco bell a long time ago. in fact I dont get anything at fast food places anymore.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:14 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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Just one quick though - Taco Bell is owned by Yum!, the same bastards that own KFC. SInce I urge everybody to boycott KFC (or even better, go vegan), I would also urge you to boycott Yum! which includes KFC, taco bell, pizza hut and long john silvers.

If you boycott say KFC but buy from another, say Taco Bell, it all ends up in the same person's pocket - Yum! Brandz, which are the people that REFUSE to implement even basic animal welfare changes into their killing operations and have REFUSED to meet even minimal animal welfare demands by peta :(


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:24 pm 
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Elephant
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I haven't had a problem with the burritos at Taco Bell. I have in the past had a problem asking for other items with "no beef", which every single time they promptly said "no beans". They still looked at me indisbelief when I clarified for them. Of course, that is when I lived in West Virginia. What did I expect. :lol:

As far as not supporting Taco Bell? I really don't see the point. One, it's not going to make a difference to them or change anything. Supporting the vegan options has to be at least as effective as boycotting. Two, the food you buy anywhere else is supporting meat selling businesses as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:44 pm 
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Rabbit
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ditto for that - it has got to be better to support vegan options.

Everyone where I work seems to be so contientious about what they eat... I had someone say they were boycotting KFC the other day - and I thought well if you eat taco bell your money goes to the same place. But they weren't being all 'well KFC is cruel' or anything.. just don't like the local KFC workers. I was almost impressed by the statement.. oh well. I support veg food when I can.. not enough veg restaurants around.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:05 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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Michael,

With all due respect, how can you say you dont see the point of boycotting these establishments altogether and that it wont make a difference? The ONLY time these companies respond to the pressure to change their animal welfare practices is when they start feeling the monetary/financial consequences - in other words, when sales start declining. If we cant even convince VEGANS to boycott these fast food corporate animal killers, then how can we expect others to do the same? Frankly, I am shocked to here that hard core vegans lend their financial support to these multinationals, EVEN if they are buying vegan options. If I buy a vegan burrito from taco bell, the money is still in part used to kill cows for their meat tacos for example. Why support a company that you would love to see shut down permamently - a company like Yum Brands! to name one example?

I dont know if you are in this category, but many of the hardcore vegans at veganfitness dont approve of peta welfarist campaigns that seek to negotiate with these companies to get them to implement some changes in their treatment of animals. They say that by doing so peta is sending the wrong message to people - that message being "It is okay to eat at KFC if they are nice to their chickens" - and that peta is negotiating with terrorists. Well, if you think peta is encouraging people to eat at these places with their campaign againt KFC for example, and you are critical of that, then how can you frequent these places yourself? That seems inconsistent to me.


Shouldnt we be working to wipe places like McDonalds, KFC and Taco Bell and all the rest off this planet? That aint gonna happen if we drop money there.

Would you be cool with the idea of me going to McDonalds and purchasing a big mac without the meat and the cheese and the sauce? I used to do this up until a few months ago, until it occurred to me that a true a.r. person would be protesting outside of McDonalds, or, if we want to get real radical, burning it down (I am not condoning arson - i am merely trying to make a point). At the very least, a true a.r. person wouldnt eat there. I cannot picture an a.r. person driving through the McDonalds drive through, EVEN if they are buying vegan versions of stuff. That is like seeing a polar bear tanning on a beach. It just doesnt fit together. its non-sensical in my opinion.

and this thread, frankly, has caused me to give up hope - what's the point really? What is the point of me going out of my way to, for example, find vegan sugar and dish out money that I dont have to pay for it (when I can buy normal sugar at much cheaper cost) when I see hardcore vegans financially supporting companies like taco bell? I think i am just gonna go to McDonalds and buy a big extra without the meat cheese or mayo for dinner. Honestly, it would be much easier than cooking vegan food. I am tired, burnt out and if even vegans (probably more hardcore and disciplned than me) need convincing to boycott thesse places altogether, then things seem even MORE hopeless than I previously thought.

Viva McDonalds.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:18 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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Renecarol25 wrote:
ditto for that - it has got to be better to support vegan options.



I couldnt disagree more. It is better to remove support for these environment destroying, human rights abusing, animal murdering multinationals ALTOGETHER. And its not hard to do so either, in my opinion. C'mon people if you can go vegan you can do almost anything in my opinion!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:52 pm 
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Elephant
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compassionategirl wrote:
Renecarol25 wrote:
ditto for that - it has got to be better to support vegan options.



I couldnt disagree more. It is better to remove support for these environment destroying, human rights abusing, animal murdering multinationals ALTOGETHER. And its not hard to do so either, in my opinion. C'mon people if you can go vegan you can do almost anything in my opinion!!!


I'm curious! :? Where is it that you are buying your food that isn't supporting the same types of companies?

Personally I would like to see more and more vegan food available at the places most people eat. I would like for it to be easy for people to choose vegan food. That simply will not happen if restaurants offer vegan options and nobody buys them. You can burn down all the McDonald's if you want. :roll: People will get their burgers elsewhere. Much more effective to offer them tasty vegan options and show them how easy it really is to be vegan.

I would say if you want your vegan Big Mac for dinner, go get it. Maybe next time you go there will be a vegan burger because enough people were requesting vegan food. It sounds crazy, but it did happen at Burger King. 8) In fact it's happening at restaurants all over the country and has resulted in more people choosing vegetarian meals than all of the boycots worldwide from 20 hardcore vegans. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:23 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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michaelhobson wrote:


I'm curious! :? Where is it that you are buying your food that isn't supporting the same types of companies?

While unfortunately there are no 100% vegan grocery places where I live, there are LESSER of two evils kind of choices. I wouldnt support McDonalds anymore than I would like to support Dominian or Loblaws (the big grocery chains here). While Whole Foods sells "organic meats", Dominian sells what I am sure are factory farmed meats and LIVE lobsters. Clearly, the choice is one of lesser of two evils. But it is an important choice nonetheles, especially if veganism is about reducing suffering. I reduce suffering when I choose to give my money to Wholefoods instead of to Dominian. I reduce suffering when I go to Joe Blow's diner (small, sole-prioprietorship) and buy a vegan taco there instead of lend financial support to McDonalds.

Arguably, one may even say that McDonalds is the lesser of two evils compared with Taco Bell (or any Yum brand company), because at least McDonalds agreed to peta demands for improved animal welfare conditions. Yum brands has been dicking peta around for over a year now, and I guess I have a special distaste for the company because of things that I have personally overheard Yum Brands execs say at the various protests I have attended. So please, I am imploring all vegans - if you insist on vegan fast food, DON'T hinder peta's and activists efforts of trying to pressure Yum by campaigning for a boycott. Go to MCDonalds or Buger King, but skip the support of Yum. [/color]

Personally I would like to see more and more vegan food available at the places most people eat. I would like for it to be easy for people to choose vegan food. That simply will not happen if restaurants offer vegan options and nobody buys them. You can burn down all the McDonald's if you want. :roll: People will get their burgers elsewhere. Much more effective to offer them tasty vegan options and show them how easy it really is to be vegan.


I agree. But the difference between us is that I would love to see less MCDonalds and more vegan places, making vegan places more mainstream, abundant and accessible, instead of helping to sustain places like McDonalds, who may offer vegan "options" but will still continue to kill animals and the environment. [/color]

I would say if you want your vegan Big Mac for dinner, go get it. Maybe next time you go there will be a vegan burger because enough people were requesting vegan food. It sounds crazy, but it did happen at Burger King. 8)

As far as I know, the burger at Burger King isnt vegan. It is vegetarian. yes, if more people ask for a vegan burger, Burger King might get one, but, like I said above, I would rather see smaller, ethical companies thrive and become mainstream and as common as burger king instead of seeing the continued life of places like Burger King. The way to achieve that is to support these companies - not Burger King. I dont believe that Burger King can ever be made to be ethical, and I certainly dont believe that them offering a vegan choice renders them as such.

In fact it's happening at restaurants all over the country and has resulted in more people choosing vegetarian meals than all of the boycots worldwide from 20 hardcore vegans. :wink:


Lastly, even though your vegan patronage may be encouraging these corps to "appease" vegans by offering them vegan options, it does NOTHING to pressure the company into changing things, like for example, replacing a scalding alive process with controlled-atmosphere killing (a much more painless way to die). What will encourage these people to make these changes in their treatment of animals is not demanding vegan options of them, but boycotting them until they make the changes. Once the changes have been implemented, then fine, have your taco bell burrito if you really cannot do without it. But for now, please dont stand in the way of activists FIGHTING these places until they improve the conditions for the billions of animals they murder annually. and sorry to be so blunt, but if you are in a taco bell or kfc line up, then you are in the way. I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to know that my KFC ? Yum campaigning has, as one of its obstacles, vegans who feel the way that you and Rene do. The animals that are being scalded alive next week need us to all boycott KFC until they make the changes. Nothing else can work in the immediate future. Yes, ideally, it would be best if enough people would just go vegan but that aint gonna happen in the here and now. That will take some time, and so we must continue to campaign for veganism to take care of the "demand" side, but we also must take action for the voiceless chickens and cows in the possession of Yum in the here and now .


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 Post subject: Re: Am I the only one this happens to?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:12 pm 
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Elephant

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Renecarol25 wrote:
Whenever I go to a Taco Bell and ask for a "bean burrito with out cheese" they repeat the order back to me - "you want a bean burrito with no beans." Somedays I want to say yes just to see what they would give me.... but that'd be a waste of cheese because I wouldn't eat it.


I do the same thing, but they never reply like that to me hehe.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:13 pm 
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Elephant

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compassionategirl wrote:
Just one quick though - Taco Bell is owned by Yum!, the same bastards that own KFC. SInce I urge everybody to boycott KFC (or even better, go vegan), I would also urge you to boycott Yum! which includes KFC, taco bell, pizza hut and long john silvers.

If you boycott say KFC but buy from another, say Taco Bell, it all ends up in the same person's pocket - Yum! Brandz, which are the people that REFUSE to implement even basic animal welfare changes into their killing operations and have REFUSED to meet even minimal animal welfare demands by peta :(


I had no idea about that. I thought it was owned by Pepsi, but now I see Pepsi is owned by Yum!. Damn so many corporations. Thanks for letting me know, another company to boycott :D


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:11 pm 
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Elephant

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Nat, are there any other companies that they own besides the one you mentioned?

Guess I am going to have to go without my vegan pizza from Pizza Hut. Todays the last day as it was already ordered. Thanks for letting me know!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:20 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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Not to my knowledge, but I would be more than happy to find out for you koll!!!

Give me a few days to look more deeply into it. But so far, for sure the following:

KFC, Taco bell, Pizza Hut, Long John Silvers.

PLEASE EVERYBODY BOYCOTT THEM or you are hurting my campaigning (as well as other activists campaigns. I know that a few other activists on this board are also involved in the KFC/Yum demos and protests as either participants or organizers.

Even if you dont see the point, please just do so as a courteousy to fellow activists and vegans who are currently in the middle of a campaign specifically targetting yum. Once these bastards give in to our demands, which will make the deaths of chickens et. al. less violent and horrific, then go back to supporting the vegan options at these places if you so wish.

peace, man, peace :D


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:15 am 
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Elephant

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I personally agree with what you are saying and it makes sense. If these people cannot adopt basic regulations, then they are not going to get a penny from me.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:48 am 
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Rabbit
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You can get vegan pizza from papa johns.


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