Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans

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compassionategirl
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#46 Postby compassionategirl » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:39 am

sirdle wrote:Try not to beat yourself up, man. Remember that newspapers always report the worst news. !


This is certainly true of the local news here. All I heard yesterday was how people in NO were all "turning on each other." :evil:

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Sknydpr
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#47 Postby Sknydpr » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:48 am

compassionategirl wrote:Dan,

Have you gotten in touch with any mutual friends that might know what her situation is?


No, we were co-workers when I was still living there, and she left the company a couple of months ago. I understand that the company has temporarily relocated to Baton Rouge, but I seriously doubt anyone there would know her status.

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sirdle
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#48 Postby sirdle » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:18 pm

compassionategirl wrote:P.S. Animals are not "its" any more than you or I am. They are either "he's" or "she's". The "it" reference represents societal conditioning to that effect. This societel conditioning is so strong and deeply entrenched that even I inadvertently occasionally slip up and refer to animals as "its" Shocked even though I clearly dont believe they are.

I meant no disrespect. You will notice that I also refered to a human as an "it." Our English language lacks the right words. If I say, "A person went to the store to have their bike repaired," there is not agreement between the subject (singular) and the predicate (plural). If I say, "his" bike, I am being sexist (if I am speaking generally, not about a specific person). If I say "its" bike, I am being insensitive :? I meant no disrespect.

On a more positive note: I heard a report of a rescue worker pulling up to a house in "his" boat. A man in the window asked him if they could bring their pets. The worker said, "No, we don't have room." The reporter, at a slightly different angle and closer to the window, saw a woman near the bed saying, "Get your little whiskers in there," as she put her cats into a duffle bag. Then she came to the window, smiled at the rescuer and gently handed her bag to her husband. The reporter said nothing.
As long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seeds of murder and pain cannot reap the joy of love --- Leonardo Da Vinci

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jonathan
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#49 Postby jonathan » Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:35 pm

sirdle - i agree entirely with everything you said. good to see eye to eye.

kollision - i dont agree with anything you said, you have entirely the wrong end of the stick, and your view is very in keeping with that of populist media. i am sorry if this offends, but i find it disapointing. you make far too many generalisations and you are excusing exploitative capitalism. im sorry but to me that is wrong.

jonathan

(ps - wont be able to post quite as much now as ive got a job :( )
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robert
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#50 Postby robert » Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:52 pm

Congratulations on the job Jonathan!

I work full-time too, and then many more hours with my own business stuff and website stuff, so most of my posts are very short, like this one :)

I'm about to head off to the gym, Arms today 8)

-Robert

Check out my Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness Book on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Vegan-Bodybuildin ... 497&sr=1-1

kollision
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#51 Postby kollision » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:41 pm

sirdle wrote:No offense taken Koll!

I think people are mostly the same no matter what their ethnicity, nationality or culture. I don't think Iraqis are "animals" as Bush once said. I don't think that most of the looters in NO are greedy or evil (although there certainly are some people who fall into this category). So when I see looting and riots and attacks on rescue workers (which truly are reprehensible) I ask myself: "What wolud cause me to act this way. It is not an acceptable for me to answer, "I would never do this." I know from experience that I can be pushed to the edge. And I think that is what we are seeing: people who are not (for whatever reason) fully in charge of their mental faculties and their actions.

That doesn't mean we should back off and let them control the city. It doesn't mean we shoud find excuses. But it does mean that we shouldn't be surprised. Any emergency rescue plan that doesn't take into account civil unrest during a national disaster, is just plain inadequate. If I am sitting here, nice and dry, well fed and hydrated, finding fault with people I would start with George Bush not the people of New Orleans. In 2000, FEMA produced a report in which they outlined the three likeliest, most catastrophic disaster which our contry would face. The top three, in no particular order, were: An earthquake in San Francisco, a terrorist attack in New York City, and a hurricane in New Orleans.

http://www.swingstateproject.com/2005/0 ... proves.php

The Bush administrations responce was to cut funding. It has been known for many, many years that a major hurricane in New Orleans would be catastrophic. The levee walls were built to wishstand only a category 3 hurricane. The coastal wetlands are being washed away. The details that we see in New Orleans now, lost power, massive flooding, hospitals turning away sick and injured, people stranded and dying within sight of rescue workers, widescale civil unrest and looting, these were all predicted by FEMA. But without money, plans cannot be put into effect. Over the past 4 years, newspapers have repeatedly cited funding for the "war" in Iraq as the major reason that levee pojects have been put on hold.

So as a category 5 hurricane was barreling down on New Orleans, where was Bush? On a 5-week vacation. Where was Cheney? On vacation. Where was the National Guard? In Iraq. The lesson we should have learned from Iraq is that it is far, far harder to restore order than it is to maintain it in the first place, but the response from the federal government was 48 hours too late. (Bush did urge people too leave the area, that is true. But how do you do that when you are in a nursing home? Or a hospical? Or don't have a car? Or are living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford gas or a hotel? I know one person who stayed because when she evacuated for hurricane Dennis it cost her $1500 dollars. She couldn't afford to evacuate again.)


I still cannot just say, "It's the situation that judges the actions". If this is the case, we do not have free will to decide what we choose to do.

As for Bush and Cheny, we might as well say that they are going through the same thing as these people, just that instead of a natural hurrican they are in power. See what I mean?

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#52 Postby kollision » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:42 pm

jonathan wrote:kollision - i dont agree with anything you said, you have entirely the wrong end of the stick, and your view is very in keeping with that of populist media. i am sorry if this offends, but i find it disapointing. you make far too many generalisations and you are excusing exploitative capitalism. im sorry but to me that is wrong.


I find it disappointing that you are trying to back up people to the end, and not giving a dose of responsibility on them (no offense too). As for me making far too many generalizations, what of you and the corporate execs? To me that is wrong too, so you see, we are not that different.

And like I said, I am not pro america or anything, they took my land. I don't respect them. But I am taking this as a whole deal for what is right and wrong for society. Lets say a person killed your parents while this happened, are you going to just say, "Eh, its ok, because of the hurricane they died"? It's like how these people blame the devil for their actions, its ridiculous.


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