Sknydpr Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/30/katrina/index.html That is some scary, scary shit. I can't tell you how glad I am that I no longer live in NO, or how much, right this moment, I wish my ex-wife didn't still live nearby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kollision Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 My mom told me about the animals all on the roof and stuff and the reporters told the people not to go there because the animals know where to go. Heck, like Id listen to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compassionategirl Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 The loss of both human AND animal life in the face of natural disasters is tragic. Too bad the only one people seem to deem important is the former only. I can just imagine how many thousands of animals drown to death as a result of them, and how many animals end up orphaned (if they survive that is).Drowning must be one of the worst ways to go. Then again, pigs and chickens frequently end up drowning in scalding hot water WHILE STILL CONSCIOUS for purposes of hide/feather removal every hour of every day. Please go vegan if you consider yourself a kind and compassionate person. thank-you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V VII Hero Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 oh man I didnt realize it was this bad. hurricanes are a main cause of my fear of water. on a side note, I cant say "new orleans" I always end up saying "narlins" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sknydpr Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 on a side note, I cant say "new orleans" I always end up saying "narlins" That's okay, that's pretty close to how the residents say it. It is bad, very bad. Looting is running rampant, the broken levees have yet to be repaired and the water is still rushing in, the rescue services there are having to push aside floating corpses as they attempt to get to the living still trapped. It'll be months before any semblance of normality has returned. I cannot imagine what I'd be thinking if I still lived there, I barely know what to think now. I have found out that my ex-wife left the area and is safe. I don't have any details on whether she got all eight cats and two dogs out with her, or whether she still has a house to return to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kollision Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I don't give a damn about the people there. Know why? Did you see those dumb arses looting stores there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sknydpr Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 I don't give a damn about the people there. Know why? Did you see those dumb arses looting stores there? Jesus, I thought I was a misanthrope. Not everyone who stayed behind is looting, Koll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kollision Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I don't give a damn about the people there. Know why? Did you see those dumb arses looting stores there? Jesus, I thought I was a misanthrope. Not everyone who stayed behind is looting, Koll. Ya...but its freakin ridiculous that during a "tragedy" that they still do this kind of stuff. Pisses me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sknydpr Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 Ya...but its freakin ridiculous that during a "tragedy" that they still do this kind of stuff. Pisses me off. The looters are greedy assholes, to be certain. I will repeat that they are in the minority there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kollision Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Ya...but its freakin ridiculous that during a "tragedy" that they still do this kind of stuff. Pisses me off. The looters are greedy assholes, to be certain. I will repeat that they are in the minority there. Lets just hope that. I remember in the LA Riots, they sure werent the minority... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compassionategirl Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 The looters DEFINIETELY suck. But my heart is breaking for any innocents, including children and helpless elderly people. For example, one diabetic man with a heart condition is stranded on a roof top - he will die unless he is rescued soon. That could have easily been my own dad. He certainly is somebody's loved one. Skinny, I am glad that your ex is okay. But I am saddened to hear that she has possibly left her animal friends behind. Cats can swim, as you know. They would simply drown. I dont think , to be honest, I could leave my animals behind to die, any more than I could leave my children. Although maybe that is easy for me to say. any way you look at it, it is tragic, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 if someone does not have the means to leave the city during the hurricane, then looting is not always wrong. i personally see nothing wrong with looting from say walmart. agreed, they could be doing something more constructive, but dont automatically condemn all looters. in a society where you have to pay for absolutely everything (the thought that if i got hit by a car one day, and was without health insurance and lived, that i could be bankrupted for life makes me shudder) you cannot blame those with the least for making the best of the bad situation. they certainly didnt stay behind with the mentality "ooh - lets ride out the biggest storm in american history so we can get some free beer". even if they are looting private property, insurance will pay for it so there really is little to be lost, unless you are sympathetic to insurance companies (i personally wouldnt piss on an insurance exec if he/she was on fire!). people generally only steal from others if they are aggreved (bar a tiny proportion of career criminals). rather than blaming the individual, you have to address the cause - why is that these people are so quick to loot? probably because they are on minimum wage ($5.15/hr? jesus - its low here at $9/hr and its going up to $9.80 next month) whilst the people they work for give them no benefits, no vacation, no health plan and are millionaires themselves. pointing the finger at the looters lets the real criminals off the hook. my sympathy goes out to anyone suffering in the hurricane. jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sknydpr Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 (edited) Skinny, I am glad that your ex is okay. But I am saddened to hear that she has possibly left her animal friends behind. Cats can swim, as you know. They would simply drown. Nat, I'm sorry, that's just silly. Cats certainly can swim. It's a moot point though. While I have no reason to think that she didn't take them, other than the idea of travelling with eight cats and finding lodging that will accept them, the area that she lives in could not have gotten more than a couple of feet of water in the houses (and probably no more than a few inches). It would be financially devastating, but the water would not have gotten anywhere near the ceilings. I'm more concerned that the windows may have gotten blown out, and the cats would be able to escape in her absence. Edited September 1, 2005 by Sknydpr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kollision Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 if someone does not have the means to leave the city during the hurricane, then looting is not always wrong. i personally see nothing wrong with looting from say walmart. agreed, they could be doing something more constructive, but dont automatically condemn all looters. in a society where you have to pay for absolutely everything (the thought that if i got hit by a car one day, and was without health insurance and lived, that i could be bankrupted for life makes me shudder) you cannot blame those with the least for making the best of the bad situation. they certainly didnt stay behind with the mentality "ooh - lets ride out the biggest storm in american history so we can get some free beer". even if they are looting private property, insurance will pay for it so there really is little to be lost, unless you are sympathetic to insurance companies (i personally wouldnt piss on an insurance exec if he/she was on fire!). people generally only steal from others if they are aggreved (bar a tiny proportion of career criminals). rather than blaming the individual, you have to address the cause - why is that these people are so quick to loot? probably because they are on minimum wage ($5.15/hr? jesus - its low here at $9/hr and its going up to $9.80 next month) whilst the people they work for give them no benefits, no vacation, no health plan and are millionaires themselves. pointing the finger at the looters lets the real criminals off the hook. my sympathy goes out to anyone suffering in the hurricane. jonathan In other words, use the cause as a scape goat? Ok I understand (althought i still believe it is wrong, but I just understand) if you loot in the means of survival, but this? BEER?! ELECTRONICS?! Now that is unacceptable. And the insurance will pay for it? Looting is looting and it is a crime. If I had a store there and someone broke in and took all my stuff, I wouldnt just dismiss and say "Eh, they are in a storm, so I dont care if they steal my stuff". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sknydpr Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 Yes, there is a clear distinction between those looting for food and water, since that's really the only way to get it right now, and those stealing jewelry, TVs, expensive tennis shoes, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 In other words, use the cause as a scape goat? Ok I understand (althought i still believe it is wrong, but I just understand) if you loot in the means of survival, but this? BEER?! ELECTRONICS?! Now that is unacceptable. And the insurance will pay for it? Looting is looting and it is a crime. If I had a store there and someone broke in and took all my stuff, I wouldnt just dismiss and say "Eh, they are in a storm, so I dont care if they steal my stuff". no crime is clear cut. i see nothing wrong in stealing from those who either have insurance or pay their workers so little that they leave them no choice. do you know that 2/3 of all armed robberies at mcdonalds are committed by staff/ex-staff. if the employers actually treated their staff with respect then they wouldnt have these problems.of course the actions of business execs towards their staff arent legally crimes, so they get off, free of any punishment, taking all the wealth. if you believe that a crime is a crime irrespective of personal circumstances or econonic pressures, then you really should join the army or police. i think that all businesses in NO are expecting losses during the huricanne - what is the difference if the water takes the TV, or some guy on 5bucks an hour down at the local Walmart. selling that TV might feed his family for a month. the only people who come off worse are the insurance companies, for whom i have already expressed my lack of affection. regarding the specific bit about hypothetically owning a store there; i would probably give away as much stuff as i could get away with claiming on the insurance. the system takes so much from the individual, its time that we got something back. jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renecarol25 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Has anyone discussed sending vegan food and supplies to the victims. Our agency is organizing a Katrina relief drive and they are requesting certain kinds of foods like cereals, MREs, canned food that don't need to be heated, etc. I'm trying to get people to donate vegan stuff as I'm sure a lot of what they get won't be. Any ideas appreciated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compassionategirl Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Skinnydipper, Cats can swim? I have two cats and this is news to me. I would have to see it to believe it. Anybody else here thinks that cats CAN swim? Please share. Jonathan, as far as your sentiment that the only people in the end that lose out are insurance companies with all this looting and stuff, your wrong. Insurance companies arent dumb - they simply pass the costs on to consumers like me and you. SO when we have idiots looting for stuff like DVD players, i-pods, and shit like that that does not go to one's survival, there GREED ends up increasing insurance premiums which innocent people have to pay. So insurance companies dont lose out - we lose out. The innocent sole proprietor who is running an honest and modest store loses out. Why is he undeserving of our sympathy? I am sory, but I dont want to end up paying for somebody else's greed. You need to steal water and food to stay alive and feed your family - then go ahead. I would do the same. But I have no sympathy for greedy peoiple who take advantage of a tragic situation and steal "luxury" items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V VII Hero Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 ive seen cats swim. they aboslutely hate it and are not good at it but ive seen a cat swim before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 http://www.godfist.com/catswim.jpg Some breed(s) of cat seem to enjoy swimming. I am pretty sure most cats don't like water and would avoid it, but I think most of them could scramble out of it. I don't think they would just sink and die. Although I don't want to experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V VII Hero Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 that cat's a witch! it floats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Skinnydipper, Cats can swim? I have two cats and this is news to me. I would have to see it to believe it. Anybody else here thinks that cats CAN swim? Please share. Jonathan, as far as your sentiment that the only people in the end that lose out are insurance companies with all this looting and stuff, your wrong. Insurance companies arent dumb - they simply pass the costs on to consumers like me and you. SO when we have idiots looting for stuff like DVD players, i-pods, and shit like that that does not go to one's survival, there GREED ends up increasing insurance premiums which innocent people have to pay. So insurance companies dont lose out - we lose out. The innocent sole proprietor who is running an honest and modest store loses out. Why is he undeserving of our sympathy? I am sory, but I dont want to end up paying for somebody else's greed. You need to steal water and food to stay alive and feed your family - then go ahead. I would do the same. But I have no sympathy for greedy peoiple who take advantage of a tragic situation and steal "luxury" items. by saying that you are ignoring the fact that it is the insurance companies screwing us in the first place. they are in the wrong, not the looters. my point for it being particularly acceptable at the moment is that most of New Orleans is under water at the moment so it would most likely be written off as storm damage. blaming the looters is simply tackling the symptoms of social decay. you need to address the reason why they are doing it. and it really isnt greed. can you blame people for seizing upon the oportunity to get free stuff in a society where you have to pay for everything? no way! if i were in the same situation, having seen half my home float away, then i would probably grab something of value from the the local walmart so that i had something of value to sell afterwards. we both agree that the insurance companies are in the wrong, so lets tackle that, rather than putting down some guy with 4kids, trying to scratch out a living on $5.15 an hour down at your gas station. blaming the looters is like people blaming immigrants for unemployment, when its actually fat cat bosses outsourcing to foreign countries to make even more profit (thankyou veganmadre for that quote!). its the people above us the heirachy that are responsible - lets do something about that for a change instead of shitting on the people below us. jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 V VII Herothat cat's a witch! it floats! When it's done, I guess we'll have to burn it. That'll teach it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sknydpr Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 that cat's a witch! it floats! It clearly weighs the same as a duck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compassionategirl Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 (edited) Jonathan, There have been many times in my life where I have been flat out poor. Currently, I make shitty income at the moment that doesnt even begin to cover my bills or my tuition. You have NO idea about teh kind of financial stress that I am under. But in my opinion that does NOT give me the RIGHT to rob somebody else who happens to be better off than me. WE are not shitting on the people below "us" at all. But there are tons of destitute people out there that dont resort to stealing. Why should these innocent, destitute people have to pay higher prices in stores or higher insurance premiums because some others think the difficulty of their situations gives them card blanche to do as they please? Even having said that, however, I am more sympathetic to sole proprietor's who try to make an honest living with decent prices than I am to mega billion dollar corporations. So, let us take my uncle, who runs a modest clothing store. He barely breaks even himself and has enough to sustain him, his wife and mother in law. he charges very fair prices (which is probably why he typcailly only breaks even) and puts in long hours at his store, 6 days a week. WE have a flooding, and local Torontonians help themselves to my uncle's merchanise by stealing it. I am not cool with that (whether it is my uncle or not). That doesnt seem right to me, especially if the items bieng stolen were not essential items like clothing but the "extras" like electronics - things that you dont need to survive. So according to you, because I see my home get washed away, that gives me the right to steal from this man? It isnt the store owners fault that my home got washed away. You say well, the store owner's insurance will cover it. But what about the home owner? Didnt he have insurance? Furthermore, like I said, the store owners insurance may cover it but then his premiums go up so he ends up subsidizing the unfortunate people to which you refer. That doesnt seem fair. Why should the store owner subsidize the looters? I agree that insurance companies are despicable. But I dont think the solution to undervalued labour and poverty is stealing from those that are better off, especially when we are not talking about mega corporations. That is not going to get to teh root of the problem. Clearly, gigantic corporations who exploit their employees and torture animals deserve no sympathy, UNLIKE the store owner I described above. But I cannot agree with any suggestion that the innocent store owner should subsidize the looters, which is essentially what would happen. The images I saw on tv were not of Walmart getting looted, but what appeared to be store owners like my uncle. Not cool. Edited September 1, 2005 by compassionategirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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