Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:09 pm 
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Manatee

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jonathan wrote:
nicole wrote:
compassionategirl wrote:
jonathan wrote:


:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: DAMN governments!!! Like they arent rich enough.



I not sure if that's entirely true at all of the government of Nepal!

This sounds like fun, but I have never climbed anything and I couldn't afford the trip anywhere! I will be cheering you on. :D


eh! that isnt my quote!!!! goddamn it, i spent 2months in nepal, they are far from rich!



Oooh, sorry! I deleted the wrong parts! My fault! :)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:47 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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well, thanks for your input but I disagree. The message that veganism does NOT preclude strength and physical fitness is an important one, and the message that you dont need meat to be strong is one that needs to be reached out to as many misguided meat eaters as possible. How better to do that than do an extreme physical activity that will be likely reported on the international news?

That seems to me to be a good way to reach millions of people all over the world with that important message. I am 100% in favour for getting the animal rights message out there to the world.

Unlike PETA, our message will be clear and right on point. You can slimb mountains without eating meat. Quite literally. The need for meat is a social construction, not a physiological or physical necessity.

While I am all for doing something just for fun and personal reasons, I am also 100% in favour of helping the animals in the most effective ways possible. If that means I have to resort to begging the media for attention, then I would - for the animals. The more people are exposed to TRUTH aboutr veganism, the better it is for the animals because more vegans in the world means less suffering. Furthermore, Everest is serious, apparently, and if I am going to risk life and limb to take it on, I better have a damn good reason motivating me, beyond just "fun and hanging out with cool peopole". My love for animals is that damn good reason for me.

So ya, veganism is about reducing suffering, and that is exactly what my idea would help do, by encouraging those who think that they need meat for strength and muscle to reconsider their erroneous perceptions.

You can keep your hard earned weight then. If I have to do this alone, I will. And I will be enjoying every minute of spotlight/coverage of the issue for the animals. I would gladly do this anonymously, withour releasing my name to the media. The only part of my identity that would be relevant to my message and goal of helping animals is "vegan". That's it. And as far as giving the impression to people that veganism isnt about being part of a club, cult or elite, that is fine too. IT can be reported as a bunch of random vegans. No need to descrive ourselves as anything other than that, like "vegan fitness team" or anything. I am sure Vegan Outreach would enjoy media attention on this endeavour just as much as Peta and myself. The again, I could be wrong about that, but my concern isnt impressing any organization. It is about helping animals. Pure and simple.

While the. tone of this email sounds annoyed, I do appreciate your honesty. I will say, however, that it seems that you and I were born to disagree about EVERYTHING. :(


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:16 pm 
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Elephant
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jonathan wrote:
i am also uncomfortable with the idea of a 'vegan team'. i sometimes see sports teams all walking round in the same tops, and think it looks a bit sad. i prefer an individuals perogative to express themselves. i dont want people to think that being vegan is being part of a team, or club. to me, its just a simple thing to do to reduce suffering.


Weren't you the guy going round the house at VF week trying to outfit everyone in a vegan shirt for our outings? You seemed to take some pleasure in in being out with a group of clearly labeled vegans. Of course we weren't all wearing matching shirts or anything.

We may disagree on this one, but I enjoy being part of the Vegan Fitness team. I don't think anyone here is vegan just to be part of a team, or that we are giving a bad impression that way. We can be part of a team without losing our individuality.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:23 pm 
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Elephant
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its good that we acknowledge that we disagree :)

the thing with my reluctance to do anything that loses weight is that at the moment i am a reasonably broad and muscular guy. almost every day i get some random customer telling me that i am a good advert for veganism. there must be over 100people who no longer regard vegans as weak and skinny because they know me (and im quite vocally vegan).
if i lost weight, i lose that image. subsequently people may lose that positive image, and no longer consider it.

also, endurance athletes who are vegan (as mountaineering is almost entirely endurance - the sheer amount of calories you burn means you cant carry much weight) are plentiful. brendon brazier, fiona oakes (elite level marathon runner) and the guy who won that ultra marathon in cali, as well as many more.
there are virtually no professional level strong vegans. which isnt to say that there arent strong vegans (ryan, joni and vegan josh (veganfitness.net)are both really very strong), only that we have very very little penetration in strength sports.
this is reflected by the massive hostility that vegans face on muscle and strength boards.

i think that it is far more valuable at the moment to concentrate on getting more strong vegans than fit vegans. i for one, would like to be very strong, and i need to make sacrifices for that. mountaineering expeditions are one of those at the moment.

regarding the media spotlight and what not, it wasnt my intention to imply that you wish to seek fame, only that i think that such an exercise may be discounted by many as 'yet another stunt by those animal rights loonies to grab attention'.
also, regarding mountain climbing making the news, it is highly unlikely that it would be covered at all. the general media pandas only to corporate interests. Animal rights stories in a positive light dont get a mention. plus in high season there can be 40 or more people a day summiting Everest, so we would have to do something spectacular to make the news.

jonathan

_________________
Squat
Press
Eat
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:35 pm 
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Elephant
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I think hiking a big mountain to get press is a good idea. A woman named Rachel Bjork rode a bicycle across the country a couple of years back to protest KFC and promote veganism, and it got a fair amount of press. - http://www.kentuckyfriedcruelty.com/racheldiary.asp


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:41 pm 
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Manatee
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What are you guys planning on doing for gear? I could be wrong but I think any sleeping bag rated for that kind of thing is made out of down.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:42 pm 
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Manatee
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Will are you going to portland oregon?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:46 pm 
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Elephant
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madcat wrote:
What are you guys planning on doing for gear? I could be wrong but I think any sleeping bag rated for that kind of thing is made out of down.


as is any high altitude extreme weather jacket, plus all mountain boots are leather. id forgotten that!

nuts!

jonathan

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:48 pm 
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Elephant
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Hey Madcat, yeah me and my wife and son are moving to Portland in mid-December. I'm really excited about it. We're going to stay in an extended stay hotel for the first month while we look for a place to rent. If you know of any good spots to live, please recommend!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:59 pm 
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Elephant
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jonathan wrote:
madcat wrote:
What are you guys planning on doing for gear? I could be wrong but I think any sleeping bag rated for that kind of thing is made out of down.


as is any high altitude extreme weather jacket, plus all mountain boots are leather. id forgotten that!

nuts!

jonathan


Come on folks! There are plenty of vegan alternatives. Most expedition weight boots were already synthetic 15 years ago when I was in to that sort of thing. I'm sure they haven't all gone back to leather. :? I haven't got time right now to shop for jackets for you all, but check out these boots for an example. :roll:


Image

Quote:
* Durable thermoplastic polyurethane shells supply protection from the elements and flexibility for approaches and technical ice climbing
* Removable, 5-layer liners are lined with Velveteen for comfort while providing warmth and moisture protection; adjustable tongue enhances fit
* Full rubber randing enhances edging ability and abrasion resistance; rustproof lacing hardware handles long-term water exposure
* Asoframe technology combines midsole, heelcounter and toebox into a single durable unit for flex control and a dependable performance and protection
* Polyurethane midsoles provide shock absorption, cushioning and durable support for long approaches and vertical climbs
* Vibram® Nilgiri crampon-compatible outsoles feature dual-density rubber for incredible grip on a variety of surfaces
* Self-cleaning lug design with Asobrake for enhanced traction on descents; suitable for most step-in style crampons


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:00 pm 
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Manatee
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If you want to be close in to all the vegan stuff then I would suggest the Hawthorn or Belmont neighborhood. But come check it out first. A lot of times you can find great rentals on craigs list.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:01 pm 
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Elephant
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madcat wrote:
If you want to be close in to all the vegan stuff then I would suggest the Hawthorn or Belmont neighborhood. But come check it out first. A lot of times you can find great rentals on craigs list.


A friend of Josie's just moved to Portland and found a great job on Craigs List. 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:36 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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jonathan wrote:
also, endurance athletes who are vegan (as mountaineering is almost entirely endurance - the sheer amount of calories you burn means you cant carry much weight) are plentiful. brendon brazier, fiona oakes (elite level marathon runner) and the guy who won that ultra marathon in cali, as well as many more.

...regarding the media spotlight and what not, it wasnt my intention to imply that you wish to seek fame, only that i think that such an exercise may be discounted by many as 'yet another stunt by those animal rights loonies to grab attention'.

also, regarding mountain climbing making the news, it is highly unlikely that it would be covered at all. the general media pandas only to corporate interests. Animal rights stories in a positive light dont get a mention. plus in high season there can be 40 or more people a day summiting Everest, so we would have to do something spectacular to make the news.

jonathan


Fair enough but I have only a few comments about the above quoted parts of your post.
yes, there are lots of vegan endurance athletes jonathan. But to be honest, I had never heard of Brednan Brazier until I became vegan. Ib have never heard the evening news cover Brendan brazier's physical feats. This is not to say that they havent been covered here in Toronto, but I quite regularly watch the news (although not really recently) and have never heard of the athletic achievements of VEGANS. yet, I have heard about "the first woman to climb Everest" or the latest group of local Canadians to climb Everest, for example. So I feel, based on my experiences, that we could go somewhere with "the first vegans to conquer Everest" exposure. And I think that if the First woman to conquer Everest or the latest Canadians to conquer Everest garners national news coverage here (as it does cuz I watched it myself), then I think we can garner coverage as "the first vegans to conquer Everest."

Perhaps I am naive, but I really dont think my idea can harm animals, only help them.


I think that "stunts" are more susceptible to criticism when they seek to shock, or inadvertently/unintionally offend, etc. etc.
This is simply a bunch of healthy strong vegans trying to show people that "you can quite literally climb mountains without hurting animals." I never planned on making this endeavour into an in your face, sensationalist, shock tactic Peta style 'stunt" - only an earnest and compassionate journey, one that I am hoping will win respect for veganism.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:49 pm 
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Elephant
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Yeah Craig's list is a good site, we already have a "housing wanted" ad up there. What job did your friend find Michael? The job search has been going pretty well for me so far. I already passed the qualifying exams for 3 different social services jobs with the state of OR


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:53 pm 
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Elephant
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I think you have a good idea compassionategirl. Even if you don't get a lot of press coverage, people will always be able to respond to comments about veganism being unhealthy with, "Oh yeah, well a vegan climbed Mt Everest"


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