Good Evening from Sirdle!

Introduce yourself. Tell us about your training history, how long you've been vegan, share some of your goals and some of your interests.

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sirdle
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#16 Postby sirdle » Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:35 pm

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

dtougas: yeah that is the picture I was thinking of. I thought he was 60 in that photo. He's not? How old do you think he is?

Kollision: yeah, I noticed that about the cardio, also. I have been told that 20-30 min 3 times/wk maxes out the cardio benefit, and that if you're doing it for longer than that it is for some reason other than good health. I just love it. If I run into a time crunch, I'll reduce it, but for now... I'm having too much fun.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm STOKED!

I lost another 2%bf this month!
I lost 5.4# of body fat and gained 1.6# of muscle! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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#17 Postby kollision » Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:59 pm

sirdle wrote:Thanks for the feedback, guys.

dtougas: yeah that is the picture I was thinking of. I thought he was 60 in that photo. He's not? How old do you think he is?

Kollision: yeah, I noticed that about the cardio, also. I have been told that 20-30 min 3 times/wk maxes out the cardio benefit, and that if you're doing it for longer than that it is for some reason other than good health. I just love it. If I run into a time crunch, I'll reduce it, but for now... I'm having too much fun.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm STOKED!

I lost another 2%bf this month!
I lost 5.4# of body fat and gained 1.6# of muscle! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


Congratualations! You are doing really good for yourself. So I take it that you are now 23% bodyfat? Are you taking these measurements yourself? And if so, what are you using? Regular calipers?

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Body Fat

#18 Postby dtougas » Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:36 pm

A great site for measuring your body fat is http://www.mybodycomp.com. It's free, and all you need is a tape measure.

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#19 Postby sirdle » Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:40 pm

Thanks,

I am at 24%. I was 26% on on July 1st, and 27% on June 1st. So I have dropped a total of 3%.

Are you taking these measurements yourself? And if so, what are you using? Regular calipers?

Well, ya found me out. I know I should get some calipers, but I am not sure where to buy them and I've heard that unless you have experience using them they can be a little inaccurate. I have been using a cloth tape measure and a formula I found in a book. The formula is from Covert Bailey. He is retired now, but for 40 years he ran an exercise and nutrition clinic. Whenever he would do an underwater body fat test, he would also take that person's measurements. He claims that the tape measure formula is accurate to about ±2%.

On June 1st I was tested at a health club with calipers and they said I was 27.4%. When I got home, I took my measurements and calculated 27%. So, until I can get some calipers (and learn how to use them) I'll pretend the tape measure is fairly accurate.

Oops, you snuck it there while I was typing this, dtougas. I'll check it out.

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#20 Postby kollision » Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:53 pm

I personally don't know how accurate it is, and you know more than me on measuring with the tape measure. But the thing is, how will you know what exactly is the fat with the measure? COuld you explain?

As for the calipers, there is a long formula for it. Basically you need three places on the body, input that into some long formula, and there you have it. Of course, unless you have the electronic ones.

So far, underwater is the most accurate.

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Tape measure accuracy

#21 Postby dtougas » Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:29 am

Measuring with with a cloth tape is supposed to be very accurate (depending on the formula you use, and there are lots to choose from). Some formulas can be almost just as accurate as having it done in water.

The mybodycomp.com formula measures all kinds of places on your body. Some of the areas measured are your wrist, ankle, and knee, which are used in the formula to determine the size and weight of your skeletal structure. When they take all those measurements together, along with your height and weight, they get a number for how dense your body is. The density is what determines how much fat you have.

sirdle, I would be very interested in seeing the formula you have, and try it out. Would you mind posting it? I would like to find some formula that was reasonably accurate that I could do own without requiring a website.

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#22 Postby sirdle » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:55 am

Bailey's formulas are totally empirical, i.e., he just played around with numbers and formulas until he found a formula that would give a result close to that of underwater body fat testing but without all the hassle. He claims they are accurate to ±2%. But this is for the average male and female. As a person becomes super fit (most dedicated body builders) these formulas will give a result 3-5% higher than the actual number. For a person who is very skinny but very out of shape they will give a result 3-5% lower than the actual number. So I think these numbers are good enough for someone just starting to get in shape, but as my body fat gets lower I'll need to do something else.

I don't know about the accuracy of the formula at http://www.mybodycomp.com. I logged on and typed in my measurements, but the report it generated didn't give me a body fat percent. :( It looked like I needed to join ($10/month) to get access to that feature. I'm pretty cheap!

I'd be happy to see the results that other people get with these formulas. :)

Women 30 years and younger:
hips + (0.8 x thigh) - (2 x calf) - wrist = % body fat

Women over 30 years:
hips + thigh - (2 x calf) - wrist = % body fat

Men 30 years and younger:
waist + (0.5 x hips) - (3 x forearm) - wrist = % body fat

Men over 30:
waist + (0.5 x hips) - (2.7 x forearm) - wrist = % body fat

Where to measure:

Waist: measure around the widest part (probably around the belly button), when relaxed... not with stomach pushed out, but not with it sucked in either... and not relaxed like your girlfriend is watching you, either... like you're by yourself and no one else is around. From maximum suck in to totally distended this measurement can vary by 5 inches! and this is where most of the error in the formulas comes from.

Hips: don't measure too high. Take this measurement around the widest part of the hips and buttocks with your feet about 4" apart.

For the following measurements, use your dominant side.

Thigh: measure around the widest part of the upper thigh while standing with your feet about 12" apart.

Calf: distribute weight evenly on both feet. Measure at the widest part.

Forearm: measure at the widest part with your fist clenched so the forearm is flexed.

Wrist: measure between the bony protrubance and the hand.

Let me know what you think!

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#23 Postby jonathan » Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:45 pm

that formula seems pretty accurate. i have measured myself on body fat monitors and they come out at around 10%. i got 9.65% with the formula that you suggested.

welcome to the board by the way :)

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#24 Postby brendan » Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:01 pm

Hey! Welcome to the board, dude! Also, thanks for the positive feedback about my approach to vegan outreach, as you pointed out on the other thread. From my experience, that seems to work best. It's nice to have that, in some part, validated by a non-vegetarian with a different perspective on things. And congratulations with all the gains you've been making!

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#25 Postby kollision » Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:00 pm

Thanks dtougas and sirdle, I learned something today!

However, where it says the body part, you put in the inches? And if it is so, how can this be accurate at all? Gunter the IFBB pro has a 40 inch waist from what I heard, yet he isnt fat at all. And if I where to have big calves with muscle, how is this going to be accurate also?

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My results

#26 Postby dtougas » Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:15 pm

The results I get from mybodycomp.com are 9.45% and from Covert Bailey's formula, I get 11.8%. I know which one I like better :wink:

sirdle, when you go to mybodycomp.com, login, click on "My Body", you should see a list of saved reports. Click on one of them to see your body composition. Does that work for you? I didn't have to pay anything to get this basic service for free. I would have to pay for anything else though...

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#27 Postby sirdle » Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:44 pm

Thanks Brenden.

------------------------------------------------

Kollision: yeah, the measurements are entered in inches. I don't know what Gunter's measurements are, but let's suppose they were 40" waist, 44" hips, 15" forearms, and 8" wrist. Using the formula that would be:

40 + (0.5 x 44) - (3 x 15) - 8 = 9% body fat

There is no reason why these numbers must work. And for some people they don't. The person who came up with these formulas spent his life working with people who were overweight. The average male that he tested was 22% and the average female was 32%. Then he just played with the numbers until he got a correlation. I think that he had limited contact with really healthy people and so I would guess the formulas become more inaccurate the lower your body fat % is.

dtougas got different numbers from mybodycomp.com. I would guess that his numbers are more accurate because they use more body measurements.

If I were a personal trainer at a gym, dealing with people who are new to fitness. I might give them these formulas as a way that they could trace their progress on a week-to-week basis. But for people who are already in shape, another method is probably needed.

-------------------------------------------------------

dtougas: yeah I got it now. All I saw was the list of measurements I had just entered. I didn't see any buttons to press, but when I clicked on the report name, the report came up.

It said I was 26% :cry: . I think I'll ask at the gym and see if they have a set of calipers. That way I can check and see which of these methods is more accurate.

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#28 Postby kollision » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:25 pm

If I were a personal trainer at a gym, dealing with people who are new to fitness. I might give them these formulas as a way that they could trace their progress on a week-to-week basis. But for people who are already in shape, another method is probably needed.


So do you just take it as you would with normal measurements? Or do you tighten it?

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#29 Postby sirdle » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:42 pm

I take the measurement so the tape is snug around the skin, but not so tight that it makes an indentation.

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#30 Postby kollision » Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:44 am

sirdle wrote:I take the measurement so the tape is snug around the skin, but not so tight that it makes an indentation.


Then its just as if you were to take a normal measurement then correct?

And whats the difference with waist and hips?


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