Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

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 Post subject: Re: welcome
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:07 am 
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Rabbit

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Location: Hemet, CA
[quote="DanDz"]Mike it is great to have you on this site. Paul Bragg is certainly an amazing man and has published some great books. Have you read Miracle of Fasting?

Yeah, that was the first book of his that I read...I love his old-school style and amazing stories. I understand he died at the age of 94 in a body-surfing accident....

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Mike Bundrant

"Let the people be holy and every animal and creeping thing will be filled with peace; and the soil of the earth will bring forth in its strength, and the fruits thereof will be meat for man."
--Brigham Young


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:21 am 
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Hey Mike, if you are afraid of being vegan, maybe you can try doing it for just one day and see how it affects you? IE you will probably notice no effects at all, and see that there is nothing to be afraid of.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:31 am 
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Rabbit

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Richard wrote:
Hey Mike, if you are afraid of being vegan, maybe you can try doing it for just one day and see how it affects you? IE you will probably notice no effects at all, and see that there is nothing to be afraid of.


good idea. really good. I think I will just begin a day at a time. Thanks.

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Mike Bundrant

"Let the people be holy and every animal and creeping thing will be filled with peace; and the soil of the earth will bring forth in its strength, and the fruits thereof will be meat for man."
--Brigham Young


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:26 am 
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Stegosaurus

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Mike Bundrant wrote:


I eat meat every once in a while socially - at a BBQ with friends for example.


:shock: :(


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:51 pm 
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Welcome! :D


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:28 am 
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Rabbit

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compassionategirl wrote:
Mike Bundrant wrote:


I eat meat every once in a while socially - at a BBQ with friends for example.


:shock: :(


I know, I know.

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Mike Bundrant

"Let the people be holy and every animal and creeping thing will be filled with peace; and the soil of the earth will bring forth in its strength, and the fruits thereof will be meat for man."
--Brigham Young


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:43 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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Mike Bundrant wrote:
compassionategirl wrote:
Mike Bundrant wrote:


I eat meat every once in a while socially - at a BBQ with friends for example.


:shock: :(


I know, I know.



:wink: 8) I just think it is important to take our commitment to this lifestyle and to kindness to animals seriously. If we vegans cannot do so, then how can we expect anybody else to do so? :wink:

When we eat meat occasionally at such and such social gathering, then we send the message that it is - on some social level and for frivolous reasons - acceptable to kill and eat animals. :shock:

okay i'm done. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:23 pm 
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Rabbit

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:wink: 8) I just think it is important to take our commitment to this lifestyle and to kindness to animals seriously. If we vegans cannot do so, then how can we expect anybody else to do so? :wink:

When we eat meat occasionally at such and such social gathering, then we send the message that it is - on some social level and for frivolous reasons - acceptable to kill and eat animals. :shock:

okay i'm done. :wink:[/quote]

Well said. Thank you.

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Mike Bundrant

"Let the people be holy and every animal and creeping thing will be filled with peace; and the soil of the earth will bring forth in its strength, and the fruits thereof will be meat for man."
--Brigham Young


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:13 am 
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Elephant

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Mike Bundrant wrote:
:wink: 8) I just think it is important to take our commitment to this lifestyle and to kindness to animals seriously. If we vegans cannot do so, then how can we expect anybody else to do so? :wink:

When we eat meat occasionally at such and such social gathering, then we send the message that it is - on some social level and for frivolous reasons - acceptable to kill and eat animals. :shock:

okay i'm done. :wink:


Well said. Thank you.[/quote]

Welcome Mike. I am in Los Angeles, California. Glad to see another Californian on this board. I am glad to hear that you believe that it pleases God, because that was one of the biggest motivaters that made me change to Vegan overnight.

I am also sad to hear about your fathers suffering. Gives us a first hand perspective that suffering is no laughing matter, especially how you mentioned how he couldn't do it on this one.

As for your weight loss, congratulations! I am actually trying to gain weight. I was at 175 to 280 but I am now 265 because my diet has been going really low these past two weeks. Going to get it back in gear tomorrow.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask. We have several certified personal trainers on this board and a lot of knowledgable people that should be personal trainers hehe.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:51 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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Is Hemet close to LA?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:10 am 
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Rabbit

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Location: Hemet, CA
Hemet is a couple hours east of LA...and south a bit off the 10 freeway.

Thanks for the welcome, Kollision....did you typo the numbers in your post...? So you changed to Vegan overnight? Care to elaborate...? I am slowly but surely changing. Animal products are at an all-time low for me...not just because they hamper my digestion...but I am also developing more compassion for animals as I read this board and information on animal treatment from other sources. I am beginning to feel a deep sadness at how they are treated and am considering them as intelligent creatures with capacity for joy.

Have you ever ignored, criticised or mistreated in some way another person...and then somehow they became "real" to you....and you realized the impact of your behavior on this other person that has wants, needs and feelings just like you? I feel pained when this happens...especially with my children...suddenly I will realize, for example, that my son David is a 12 year old kid that just wants to play catch with me, just like I always wanted so badly to play catch with my dad..and I will feel pained for treating him like he is a burden of some sort.

Anyway - animals are becoming real to me too. I am realizing that I have contributed to the mistreatment of intelligent, vulnerable creatures. It's not that I have done this with full consciousness...that is the point...I've been ignoring this fact for a long time....

I wasn't planning on waxing philosophical...but there yo have it.

Thanks to all.

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Mike Bundrant

"Let the people be holy and every animal and creeping thing will be filled with peace; and the soil of the earth will bring forth in its strength, and the fruits thereof will be meat for man."
--Brigham Young


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:11 am 
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Elephant

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Mike Bundrant wrote:
Hemet is a couple hours east of LA...and south a bit off the 10 freeway.

Thanks for the welcome, Kollision....did you typo the numbers in your post...? So you changed to Vegan overnight? Care to elaborate...? I am slowly but surely changing. Animal products are at an all-time low for me...not just because they hamper my digestion...but I am also developing more compassion for animals as I read this board and information on animal treatment from other sources. I am beginning to feel a deep sadness at how they are treated and am considering them as intelligent creatures with capacity for joy.

Have you ever ignored, criticised or mistreated in some way another person...and then somehow they became "real" to you....and you realized the impact of your behavior on this other person that has wants, needs and feelings just like you? I feel pained when this happens...especially with my children...suddenly I will realize, for example, that my son David is a 12 year old kid that just wants to play catch with me, just like I always wanted so badly to play catch with my dad..and I will feel pained for treating him like he is a burden of some sort.

Anyway - animals are becoming real to me too. I am realizing that I have contributed to the mistreatment of intelligent, vulnerable creatures. It's not that I have done this with full consciousness...that is the point...I've been ignoring this fact for a long time....

I wasn't planning on waxing philosophical...but there yo have it.

Thanks to all.


Peace Mike,

No, the numbers are not wrong, they are correct :D.

As for the Vegan overnight thing, sure, I'd love to share. Well it all happened when I was eating I believe beef and then I decided I wasn't going to eat beef. Then the next day I believe I had Pork and then I just sat there crying because it all came to me about killing and such (and also before my teacher told me about Factory Farm animals which I didn't believe, but still when he told me that I should have stopped right then). So then I decided that I was going to give up all meat products and products from meat from then on. God also played a big part because it would have been hypocritical of me to say that God is "Most Loving", "Most Compassionate", etc. and only apply it to myself and not other animals. Sure we have a family dog and we treat him exactly like that, family. I knew that cows and all other animals were the exact same, created and loved by God, but I didnt really correlate that with the food.

Now when I eat food, animals and plants pop into my head. Its not that I have no respect for plants, I have even more respect for them than I had in the past. I see them just the same as cows, our family dog, my mom, etc. all created and loved by God. All of this "species" thing is all just a covering, the real essence inside is Life, which is from God. I also am more clear on the true Human Being, how he is selfish and only cares about himself (which I was, not that I was actually selfish to other people, but I was in terms of food since I put my tastes before the suffering). I also can see now that we are the only race that is like this, and that we have the knowledge and we always use that to bring ourselves higher than animals, yet instead of progressing, we degenerate backwards. Not to change this into a religious discussion, but in the Bible for example, once they got the knowledge look what happened to them. Instead of progressing, they went backwards. We shouldn't be using this knowledge idea to make us supreme and justify our acts. It should be the exact opposite. We should be condeming ourselves for using our knowledge for the wrong.

As for your journey towards lessening animal suffering, we are all here for you. If you ever need help, feel free to email us, PM us, or post on this board. All of the folks here are really open and are not judgemental to people (of course they will get mad if someone does try to justify claims on animal suffering, as I would do as well) and are very helpful in those that are trying to lead their life into Veganism. Generally speaking, when you go out to eat food, just think for a second of the animals and how they endure their entire life in torture, rape, seperationg and denying of their parents, no medical care, beating, etc. and I am pretty sure that you will lose your appetite for that meal. That generally helps a lot of people, because when they do eat, it doesn't cross their mind until later.

As for ignored or criticised another person, yes I have. Its a bad feeling once the realization hits you. However it is better than not realizing it, because now you can reshape yourself and work towards bettering yourself as well as strengthening that bond between you and the other person or animal (be it pet or otherwise). Sometimes we forget that we were once in that position (in terms of being a child and being playful) and we are stuck in what we are doing. We shouldnt just go out and play, but we should set time aside for others and get our mind off of things. There is still that kid in you and it always will be.

As for that last paragraph, that is the exact same thing that I was talking about. Generally we ignore a lot of things and the impact of our choices doesn't hit us until later, which is what is happening to you now. I am no more innocent as the meat eater, as I have falsely condemnded a lot of animals to life long (literally speaking) torment. This saddens me that I didn't start sooner and that I wasn't raised in such a household that I am now, but at least I started and have ended that cycle that I once was in. All I can do now is continue and beg for forgiveness from God that I have done this to His/Her innocent creatures.

Don't worry about being philosophical, just speak what your heart wants to say.

Thanks a lot and take care.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:21 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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Mike Bundrant wrote:


Have you ever ignored, criticised or mistreated in some way another person...and then somehow they became "real" to you....and you realized the impact of your behavior on this other person that has wants, needs and feelings just like you?
Thanks to all.


yes i have, and felt like shit afterwards - really disgusted with myself :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:31 pm 
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Stegosaurus

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Mike Bundrant wrote:
I am realizing that I have contributed to the mistreatment of intelligent, vulnerable creatures. It's not that I have done this with full consciousness...that is the point...
Thanks to all.


Yes, Mike, you are right - it usually isnt done with full consciousness (not by decent people anyway). That is why veganism is typically described by people as an "evolution in consciousness." A truly amazing feeling indeed! :D 8) I am thrilled for you that you are in the process of experiencing it!

peace to all beings :D


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:59 pm 
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SInce you and Koll are talking about feelings of immense sadness, I can relate to that too.

I am reminded daily (like when I see truckfuls of terrified animals destined for violent death on the freeways) of the continued suffering of millions of innocent, vulnerable creatures that have the capacity for pain and suffering, joy and terror, loneliness anmd sadness. When I see animals that are headed to the slaughterhouse from their miserable lives in factory farms,it literally knocks the wind out of me and I feel very overcome with despair and helplessness, knowing that there isnt anything that I could do to spare those animals from their horrible man-made fates. It makes me want to throw up and I get very depressed.

The blood of the billions of animals that humans have thoughtlessly and selfishly killed weighs on my conscience everyday, and even if the whole world goes vegan now, I will never be able to forget or be at peace. We are responsible for mass atrocities (not just to animals), and we can never undo the suffering we have caused. All we can do is make sure that it stops right here, right now.

I sincerely believe that we as humans will never no peace ourselves until we stop hurting those that cannot defend themselves. We need to stop subscribing, however subconsiously, to the theory that "might makes right."

Here are two releigious quotes that really capture what I am trying to say here:


"Oh God, enlarge within us the sense of fellowship with all living things, our brothers the animals to whom Thou gavest the earth as their home in common with us. We remember with shame that in the past we have exercised the high dominion of man with ruthless cruelty so that the voice of the earth, which should have gone up to Thee in song, has been a groan of travail." St. Basil, Archbishop of Caesarea (A.D. 275).

"Love the world with an all-embracing love. Love the animals; God has given them the rudiments of thought and joy untroubled. Do not trouble them, do not harass them, do not deprive them of their happiness, do not work against God's intent. Man, do not pride yourself on your superority to them, for they are without sin, and you with all your greatness defile the earth." - author unknown.




peace to all beings :D




:cry: :cry: :cry:


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