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 Post subject: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:43 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:48 pm
Posts: 35
What's up guys. So for a bit of background info, I'm currently 125 lbs, been lifting for about a year and a half, and have sort of plateaued. While I've made great progress, and have learned a lot along the way, I'd still like to lose a tad more body fat, and add about 10 lbs of muscle if possible. I have really muscular arms, but the rest needs more work. I guess I'm looking to go from "toned" to "muscular." I also recently just went up in weights in everything, so that won't be an option for a bit. Also new to veganism, and I've already noticed some fat loss while actually having more energy to lift. Go figure.

Day 1
Squats (Barbell, 150 lbs) 3 sets of 8-10
Dead Lift (Barbell, 120 lbs) 3 sets of 8-10
Bench Press (Barbell, 110 lbs) 3 sets of 4-6
Seated Shoulder Press (35 lb dumbells) 3 sets of 6-8
Lat pull down (110 lbs) 3 sets of 8-10
Tricep pull down (40 lbs) 3 sets of 10
Flyes (machine, 100 lbs) 3 sets of 6-8
Crunches on Bosu Ball (3 sets of 20)
Planks (3 for one minute each)

Day 2

Decline bench press (Barbell, 110 lbs) 3 sets of 6-8
Close Grip Cable Row (100 lbs) 3 sets of 6-8
Dumbbell Curls (30 lb dumbells) 3 sets of 6
Leg Extension (110 lbs) 3 sets of 8-10
Leg Curls (70 lbs) 3 sets of 8-10
Lateral Raises (25 lb dumbells) 3 sets of 6-8
Cable Crossover (95 lbs) 3 sets of 8
Tricep Kickbacks (30 lb dumbells) 3 sets of 8-10
Cable Twists (35 lbs) 3 sets of 10 on each side

Day 3
Incline Bench Press (Barbell, 90 lbs) 3 sets of 6-8
Leg Press (220 lbs) 3 sets of 8
Wide Grip Rows (110 lbs) 3 sets of 8
Front Raises (25 lb dumbells) 3 sets of 8
Hammer Curls (25 lb dumbells) 3 sets of 8
Split Squats w/ Dumbells (20 lb dumbells) 3 sets of 10
Calf Extension (180 lbs) 3 sets of 10
Pullups 3 sets of 10
Reverse Flyes (70 lbs) 3 sets of 8
Pushups on Bosu Ball 3 sets of 15
Crunches on Bosu Ball 3 sets of 20

PS: I know diet is important, so here's an example of what I eat throughout the day.

9am - Breakfast: 1.5 cups of Multigrain cheerios, light soy milk. Coffee with light soy milk and 1 tsp of raw (vegan) sugar.
11am - Snack: Apple
1pm - Lunch: Almond butter sandwich on 2 slices of multigrain bread.
3 pm - Snack: Apple or granola bar (low calorie/ sugar, about 120 calories)
6 pm - Dinner: Seitan with asparagus and lentils.
8 pm - Dessert: Apple, or 1-2 pieces of vegan dark chocolate.

Also, about 2-3 nights a week I'll have a few glasses of red wine with dinner. Oh, and adding calories to my diet (so far anyway) only seems to increase my body fat.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:13 pm 
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Elephant
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:39 pm
Posts: 2277
Location: BC Canada
You're doing too much at once, my friend.

Try doing a split routine, and lifting for about 40-45 minutes each session.
Have a leg day, a chest, triceps, and shoulders day, and then a back, biceps, and core day.

Try to focus on compound exercises like squats, dead-lifts, bench presses, shoulder presses, pull-ups, etc. Ditch the isolation crap. The only isolation move I ever use is bicep curls, which I do once a week in addition to compounds. I'll do hammer curls and concentration curls mostly.

Google the K.I.S.S routine. It's pretty much what I do and it rocks.


As far as your diet, it stinks. Not nearly enough calories an active body needs. You also need more protein. Eat every 2-4 hours if you can and eat large portions. Replace the Cheerios with Oatmeal. It's a whole food and it's rich in protein. Cheerios are for kids. This is bodybuilding. Serious lifting needs serious food! :P
Make your lunch bigger. With your almond butter sandwich, have a protein shake to wash it down with. Have a handful of nuts while you're at it too.. And a bowl of soup! Make some easy veggie soup and throw some tofu in there for added protein.
Seitan and veggies looks like a good meal for dinner.. Load up your plate. Have seconds if you want.

Last but not least, drink lots of water every day, and always always always have a protein shake or high protein/simple carb meal immediately after your workouts. Also look into getting some vegan creatine. It's easy to find, since it's synthesized anyways. Get the micronized stuff.

Also, focus on one goal at a time. You can't gain muscle and lose bodyfat at the same time.. Easily anyways.. Not many people can do it. Focus on gaining muscle right now during the winter months. Then when spring comes along, focus on bodyfat loss. Then you'll be ripped for the summer!


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 Post subject: Re: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:05 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:48 pm
Posts: 35
Really? That much more food?

As for a split routine, I used to do that and had poor results. I found that by doing full body workouts, I'm able to lift more with each exercise. Like if I did five chest exercises in a row, by the fifth one I wouldn't be able to lift much. But if I split them up, I can lift heavier and do a better job with each one. I'd be willing to give it a shot again though if you think it'd benefit me.

As for protein, I've heard that it's a total myth. We supposedly consume more protein than we need already. And isn't soy protein not good for lifting since it isn't fermented soy and contains too much estrogen? Again, just playing devil's advocate. I really appreciate your reply. Will also check out vegan creatine.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:28 pm 
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Elephant
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:32 am
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Location: Newcastle, Australia
lustforlife wrote:
Really? That much more food?


Yes.

lustforlife wrote:
As for protein, I've heard that it's a total myth.


It's not.

lustforlife wrote:
We supposedly consume more protein than we need already.


Sure, maybe some people do. Maybe the average meat eater who doesn't do any exercise at all. You on the other hand, are not consuming anywhere near enough if you want to gain weight.

lustforlife wrote:
And isn't soy protein not good for lifting since it isn't fermented soy and contains too much estrogen?


I eat quite a lot of soy. I've also gained about 40 lbs of muscle in the last year and a half. I don't think eating soy has been detrimental to my growth.

lustforlife wrote:
I found that by doing full body workouts, I'm able to lift more with each exercise.


I think this is good. I'm a big fan of full body workouts with compound lifts as opposed to split routines with isolation exercises. I agree that you're doing too many exercises each day, so I'd suggest that you simplify it a bit. I'm a big fan of 5x5 workouts. They're typically strength routines, rather than bodybuilding or hypertrophy routines but of course you'll still grow if you do it right.

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 Post subject: Re: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:02 pm 
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Elephant
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Posts: 2277
Location: BC Canada
^ What he said.


Obviously, if you're not gaining the weight you want, you need to eat more. Obviously, the low protein diet isn't doing it for you.

If you keep doing what you're doing, you'll continue along your plateau, and not make any gains. When a person's body plateaus, it's a sign that it needs to be challenged.

as far as the soy estrogen thing goes.. I don't believe all that hoopla. Soy isoflavones bind weakly to estrogen receptors, so it's not going to raise your blood estrogen levels in any way that it'll be noticeable. (a.k.a no "manboobs" ) Since I started consuming more soy protein, I've actually gotten more muscle growth. I eat lots of other kinds of proteins too. About 1 gram per pound of body weight AT LEAST!
I also eat a lot of carbs. Oats and rice are my favorites.

I would listen to sosso's advice cuz I've seen his physique. Very impressive.


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 Post subject: Re: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:31 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:48 pm
Posts: 35
Ok, I'll take both of your guys advice about more calories/ protein. But am I really doing too much? My workout only takes me 45 minutes, plus a 5-10 minute warmup. And I lift 4-5 times a week.

I'm thinking of taking some photos on a weekly basis to track my progress, then maybe I can get more specific feedback.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:28 am 
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Elephant
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:39 pm
Posts: 2277
Location: BC Canada
If you're doing that much in so little time, you aren't challenging your muscles enough! For me to do a decent full body routine it would take 2 hours because I like to do about three sets of each exercise.

The benefit of split training is that you're able to fatigue your muscles better, without wiping yourself out. I can easily spend an hour in the gym just doing my legs.

Btw, how tall are you? I noticed you only have 5 pounds on me. I'm 5'4" and still pretty lean at 120


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 Post subject: Re: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:48 pm
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I'm 5'8. And I do 3 sets of everything.


Last edited by lustforlife on Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:33 pm 
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Elephant
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Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:08 pm
Posts: 1677
Location: Hsv, AL
OK, if you feel your workout are working for you then stick with it.

Food is very important and like Marcina said your diet stinks! With oatmeal as some walnuts(for fat burning), a banana, and some raisins made with almond milk(tastes and mixes better than water).

If you want more muscle then EAT MORE PROTEIN. You can look back into my journal when I said I didnt need much protein blah blah blah. Then I started increasing my protein levels and saw my muscles grow rapidly compared to the rate I was "groing."

Why do you feel like you have to add sugar to things? Also red wine is all sugar man! I have clients who drink 2 glasses every night and wonder where theyre lacking in their diets... hmmm.

Add some hemp protein and brown rice protein in the mix if you feel iffy about soy.

Vega Sport gives me crazy energy all day when drank in the morning. Some people on here have replaced their coffee with it. Why not give it a try?

Listen to people whose physiques you admire.

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 Post subject: Re: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:31 pm 
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Elephant
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:39 pm
Posts: 2277
Location: BC Canada
lustforlife wrote:
I'm 5'8. And I do 3 sets of everything.


And it still only takes 45 minutes? Hmm..

Well that's the beauty of compound exercises. You're not wasting a lot of time doing isolation workouts. You do squats: There's your lower body and core. You do bench-press: Triceps, chest, and shoulders all in one go. Pull-ups: Super move for the back.

However you'll have to rest a minute or 2 between each sets of these moves because they're quite tiring. I've gotten very close to puking after a set of squats.


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 Post subject: Re: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:48 pm
Posts: 35
Octopussoir wrote:
OK, if you feel your workout are working for you then stick with it.

Food is very important and like Marcina said your diet stinks! With oatmeal as some walnuts(for fat burning), a banana, and some raisins made with almond milk(tastes and mixes better than water).

If you want more muscle then EAT MORE PROTEIN. You can look back into my journal when I said I didnt need much protein blah blah blah. Then I started increasing my protein levels and saw my muscles grow rapidly compared to the rate I was "groing."

Why do you feel like you have to add sugar to things? Also red wine is all sugar man! I have clients who drink 2 glasses every night and wonder where theyre lacking in their diets... hmmm.

Add some hemp protein and brown rice protein in the mix if you feel iffy about soy.

Vega Sport gives me crazy energy all day when drank in the morning. Some people on here have replaced their coffee with it. Why not give it a try?

Listen to people whose physiques you admire.


Ok, I'm taking your advice. For breakfast now I'm eating oatmeal with walnuts and a bit of maple syrup.

And I also started eating a bowl of soup with my sandwich at lunch. Haven't bought protein powder yet as it's quite expensive. Do you personally recommend hemp or soy? And for the record, I barely consume much sugar at all. Maybe one or two teaspoons a day. I'll also regulate the wine to once a week at most. I'm already seeing changes since I went vegan; body fat is dropping fast, and I'm lifting more at the gym. It's great.

Also, how often should I be lifting? I'm currently at 4-5 times a week. Do you think a day of cardio is necessary? I used to run as well, but found that I only succeeded in burning new muscle tissue.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:21 am 
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Elephant
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:39 pm
Posts: 2277
Location: BC Canada
I lift about 3 times a week at the most. The body does most of its muscle building while you're resting. That's why if you're working out that often, it's important to split up the body parts.

If you're primary goal is muscle growth, I would skip the cardio, or only do like.. 30 minutes a week at the most.


I use both hemp and soy protein and quite honestly, I haven't noticed if one works better than the other. The hemp is more filling than the soy, as it's a whole food. I can cram more soy protein into a shake though. It mixes better, tastes better, and I get about 20g per serving whereas with hemp I'll get like 15g.
Chocolate hemp protein tastes really good though!!


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 Post subject: Re: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:38 am 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:09 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Rural Arizona
lustforlife wrote:
What's up guys. So for a bit of background info, I'm currently 125 lbs, been lifting for about a year and a half, and have sort of plateaued. While I've made great progress, and have learned a lot along the way, I'd still like to lose a tad more body fat, and add about 10 lbs of muscle if possible. I have really muscular arms, but the rest needs more work. I guess I'm looking to go from "toned" to "muscular." I also recently just went up in weights in everything, so that won't be an option for a bit. Also new to veganism, and I've already noticed some fat loss while actually having more energy to lift. Go figure.

Day 1
Squats (Barbell, 150 lbs) 3 sets of 8-10
Dead Lift (Barbell, 120 lbs) 3 sets of 8-10
Bench Press (Barbell, 110 lbs) 3 sets of 4-6
Seated Shoulder Press (35 lb dumbells) 3 sets of 6-8
Lat pull down (110 lbs) 3 sets of 8-10
Tricep pull down (40 lbs) 3 sets of 10
Flyes (machine, 100 lbs) 3 sets of 6-8
Crunches on Bosu Ball (3 sets of 20)
Planks (3 for one minute each)

Day 2

Decline bench press (Barbell, 110 lbs) 3 sets of 6-8
Close Grip Cable Row (100 lbs) 3 sets of 6-8
Dumbbell Curls (30 lb dumbells) 3 sets of 6
Leg Extension (110 lbs) 3 sets of 8-10
Leg Curls (70 lbs) 3 sets of 8-10
Lateral Raises (25 lb dumbells) 3 sets of 6-8
Cable Crossover (95 lbs) 3 sets of 8
Tricep Kickbacks (30 lb dumbells) 3 sets of 8-10
Cable Twists (35 lbs) 3 sets of 10 on each side

Day 3
Incline Bench Press (Barbell, 90 lbs) 3 sets of 6-8
Leg Press (220 lbs) 3 sets of 8
Wide Grip Rows (110 lbs) 3 sets of 8
Front Raises (25 lb dumbells) 3 sets of 8
Hammer Curls (25 lb dumbells) 3 sets of 8
Split Squats w/ Dumbells (20 lb dumbells) 3 sets of 10
Calf Extension (180 lbs) 3 sets of 10
Pullups 3 sets of 10
Reverse Flyes (70 lbs) 3 sets of 8
Pushups on Bosu Ball 3 sets of 15
Crunches on Bosu Ball 3 sets of 20



Hi LustforLife,

Great name by the way.

Here is my advice: (since you asked on an open forum:)

Although I don't know how you get through your workouts in 45 minutes unless that does not include warm-up and then stretching at the end. Or you are lifting too light.

That said, I really like whole body training but only 3 days a week. Like Marcina said you actually build on recovery days. Repair is what builds and strengthens. I also would only do 6 sets per workout. Do you do individual sets, superset or a circuit? How much rest between sets? How easy are the sets?

I would dump all the machine exercises if possible. And do as many dumbbell exercises as possible. This keeps me from "cheating" and forces more symmetrical development. We all have a stronger side that likes to compensate. How long have you been doing this particular routine?


Quote:
PS: I know diet is important, so here's an example of what I eat throughout the day.

9am - Breakfast: 1.5 cups of Multigrain cheerios, light soy milk. Coffee with light soy milk and 1 tsp of raw (vegan) sugar.
11am - Snack: Apple
1pm - Lunch: Almond butter sandwich on 2 slices of multigrain bread.
3 pm - Snack: Apple or granola bar (low calorie/ sugar, about 120 calories)
6 pm - Dinner: Seitan with asparagus and lentils.
8 pm - Dessert: Apple, or 1-2 pieces of vegan dark chocolate.

Also, about 2-3 nights a week I'll have a few glasses of red wine with dinner. Oh, and adding calories to my diet (so far anyway) only seems to increase my body fat.

Thanks!


I don't see enough food in your diet either. Plus I would try and eat more real food. I do think you can build muscle without powders or excess protein. But I see very little protein in what you posted and most of it is fatty or not easily digestible. Plus a lot of processed grain for your carbs. How much are you willing/wanting to change in your diet?

I would encourage you to go to either http://www.nutridiary.com or http://www.fitday.com and get a free account, then enter in your meals and get an idea of how many calories and what the breakdown of fats/carbs/protein are per day. It may be eye-opening for you.

Dr. Debra
"The Fit Vet"

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http://drdebratibbitts.com
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 Post subject: Re: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:11 pm 
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Elephant
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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:39 pm
Posts: 2277
Location: BC Canada
The Doctor has spoken!!!
:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: My routine, need advice!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:48 pm
Posts: 35
Thanks for all of your advice guys! I'm doing great!

Thanks to my new diet (and I still have yet to add protein which I'm definitely considering), I'm lifting more, have more energy, and in just a month of being vegan nearly have a six-pack! I've never been in such great shape. I may not weigh a lot yet, and while I have a small frame and may not "read" as being muscular, I'm getting really ripped.

Here's my new diet:

10am - Breakfast: 3/4 cup of oatmeal, with 1/4 cup of walnuts, a tablespoon of maple syrup, and a tablespoon of light soy milk. Coffee with light soy milk and 1 tsp of raw (vegan) sugar.
11am - Workout
1pm - Lunch: Almond butter sandwich on 2 slices of multigrain bread, large bowl of soup (lentil, squash, pumpkin, etc).
3 pm - Snack: Apple with a handful of raw almonds. Or crackers with Dr. Cow cashew cheese (which is fucking amazing, pardon my language).
6 pm - Dinner: Protein (seitan, tofu, or vegan sausage) with a green vegetable (asparagus, brussel sprouts, spinach, etc) sauteed in garlic and olive oil or roasted, and a starch (lentils/ whole wheat cous cous, mashed sweet potatoes, brown rice, beans, etc). Once a week I'll have whole wheat pasta with vegetables and vegan sausage. Also once a week I make vegan pizza (multi grain crust, homemade sauce, basil, vegetables, etc).
8 pm - Dessert: Apple, or 1-2 pieces of vegan dark chocolate.

I love to cook by the way. I should have been more detailed with my first diet post.

Have limited red wine with dinner to once or twice a week.

Dr. Debra: I only lift for 45 minutes to an hour (actually closer to an hour). That doesn't include my 5-10 minute warmup, or stretching (an additional 5-10 minutes). I don't rest much between sets to keep my heart rate up. Maybe 30 seconds to a minute. I do three sets of everything, and don't really use machines at all, mostly dumbells, barbells, and cables.

Thanks again! I'll keep everyone posted, and please let me know if there are still holes in what I'm eating.


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