Fat loss, fitness gain

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Weez
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Fat loss, fitness gain

#1 Postby Weez » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:15 pm

Hey guys,

I've lurked these boards for a few months now, the odd question etc... any way, I decided a while back that I had been relying on meat eggs and dairy for everything and did the usual, drink, smoke and be inactive which led to weight gain and bloating, tiredness all the time and resulting in a lot of injuries when trying to do physical activity. So, fast forward a little, I decided that logically, meat and dairy and animal products were killing me and I wanted no part in the suffering, even though I had turned a blind eye to it for 30 years of my life - the reality was, I didn't like half of the meat available anyway - so, I turned vegan, with little or no knowledge, resulting in no real weight loss, until I turned to juicing, and smoothies and eating high carbs. I lost about 3 stone and dropped two jean sizes, the belly started to go. But my diet is still pretty awful in that I feel I don't maybe eat enough... fast forward two years, I joined a gym, with no knowledge of how it works as such and hired a PT to help me on my way. We gained some strength and some confidence, but no real fat loss on top just ability to push harder weights etc. So, I want to get ripped, fit, healthy(ier) and be a "machine" again like I was in my early teens.

So, I need to pin down my diet. I often juice fruit and veg as macro nutrients, but I also do a lot of smoothies, mainly fruit. BUT I have noticed something of late - I don't drink much water. Which is odd. I do if I am working out. But through out the day I just never seem to get the thirst. Has any one else had this? I know it's vital and probably contributing to me not losing any more weight. OR plateauing. I've been doing my best to try and follow Roberts examples in his book "Shred it" but always end up juicing more and more and ending up with too much. So, essentially my diet isn't getting much solid food bar salads and porridge and the salads are a little basic at times.

Anyway, I will be asking a lot more questions and would love advice on my journey of taking this seriously. I will be putting up a food diary - as I know I survive, rather than eat - which I believe is scuppering me. I will be looking for support (the PT is sympathetic and no judgemental to me being a "veggie" and I THINK he has sussed that I don't drink milk or eggs, not that it bothers me, but I want to show that meat is not the answer and to stop with the protein myth etc) I am not afraid to work out now, I can work at my own pace, I am trying my best to find time or at least make time. The belly needs to go.... I still consider my self a noob when it comes to nutrition and this will be my main concerns and advice, I think I can handle the gym and deal with work outs for now, but I can cross that bridge if I feel stuck.

Should I calm down on the juicing? Or keep up a week on week off? I know its an odd question to ask, but I did see results from doing it and I haven't put weight back on. Do you think the lack of wanting to drink water is a direct result of juicing? Should I stay raw, or mix it up with cooking? Is it actually possible to eat TOO much fruit, if you are shredding and training? Sorry if the questions seem a little inane, or odd, as you can imagine with this all being new to me, I have a lot of them and I feel I have to ask them for peace of mind, even more so living in a country that is still obsessed with bacon and fry ups and roast dinners etc... Oh, and I have come to the realisation I really don't like Tofu... much :lol: I can also see this may be a massive mess of writing that is all over the place....

So, for now, I will provide my stats...

30 years old, Male.

5 foot 7 inches, 14 stone 2.... I haven't done a BMI yet but hope to get one done at the gym soon enough.

Oh, one thing I did want to ask, BCAAs.... what do you guys use as a "during work out" ? I would like to get more out of it and try and push through the fatigue a little more. I'm concentrating on shoulders, chest and arms at the moment as they are the weakest part of me.

Sorry for the essay but I hope I have given enough history and insight into my conversion and journey, and I am little tired from work.

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Re: Fat loss, fitness gain

#2 Postby Eiji » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:43 pm

Eat whole foods so smoothies are ok but juices are not but occasionally they're fine

No need for supplements other than b12. If you want to add muscle eat more whole foods.

Workout with compound movements. Squats are your best friend if you're looking for size all around. And I mean barbell squats not smith machine or leg press. Upper body pull-ups, chins and rows for back and biceps. Dips, bench press, overhead press, push-ups for chest, shoulders and triceps. Hill sprints for calves and thighs and generally getting to badass territory in the ripped and shredded while being able department.
Make no excuses to skip a training session. Feel stressed, sad, sick or tired? Go train. Your friends, your heart, mind and body will lie to you. Telling you that you need that recovery day. Go ahead, stay home. I'll be training that day and getting better no matter what.

Weez
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Re: Fat loss, fitness gain

#3 Postby Weez » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:18 am

Thanks for the reply man, okay, so quit it on the juices from the juicer? My smoothies are an even split of fruit an veg at the moment, with seeds and nuts in the mix as well. I've been using almond, rice and oat milks that are fortified with B12. I've started smashing the mixed salads in to me so there is a large variation on foods and mixing it up with home made falafels and houmous etc. I've bought a pea isolate for protein.

Thanks for the tips, my shoulders and arms are weak as hell. 30 press ups in 3 sets yesterday and I'm aching some what. I'm not in anyway looking to bulk up or build mass.

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Re: Fat loss, fitness gain

#4 Postby Eiji » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:42 pm

Yeah juices are ok once in awhile but not at the expense of the whole foods. Pea protein isolate is a waste of money. If you want pea protein eat peas. Whole foods are your ticket man! For extra protein rich smoothies add oats and soy milk.
Make no excuses to skip a training session. Feel stressed, sad, sick or tired? Go train. Your friends, your heart, mind and body will lie to you. Telling you that you need that recovery day. Go ahead, stay home. I'll be training that day and getting better no matter what.

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Re: Fat loss, fitness gain

#5 Postby Eiji » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:02 pm

Weez wrote:I'm not in anyway looking to bulk up or build mass.

What exactly are you trying to do then? You do realize that stronger muscles are bigger than weak muscles and that any gains in strength that are not neural adaptations will be associated with muscle growth. BTW no one gets huge and jacked by accident. It takes years and years of focus on training and diet and often drugs are used to speed up the process or take it further than naturally possible. The fear of getting too big is a false fear unless you're addicted to barbell squats, and is often used IMO by people who don't want to train hard.
Make no excuses to skip a training session. Feel stressed, sad, sick or tired? Go train. Your friends, your heart, mind and body will lie to you. Telling you that you need that recovery day. Go ahead, stay home. I'll be training that day and getting better no matter what.

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Re: Fat loss, fitness gain

#6 Postby Eiji » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:14 pm

Then comes the question of do you want to train to be fit?

And what is fit or fit enough for what? Will you be satisfied with mediocre? Is 20 push-ups good enough or will you want to be able to do 100 at a time?
Is being fit enough to walk up the mountain good enough or will you strive to be able to run up it?
Mediocre is easy and moderation is for pussies.
Make no excuses to skip a training session. Feel stressed, sad, sick or tired? Go train. Your friends, your heart, mind and body will lie to you. Telling you that you need that recovery day. Go ahead, stay home. I'll be training that day and getting better no matter what.

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Re: Fat loss, fitness gain

#7 Postby kathymtns » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:14 pm

I know I am not a guy, but I do agree with eating whole foods. I do smoothies every day and limit juices to every once in a while. I did do a detox program a while back and was eating a lot of whole foods, especially fruits and veggies and noticed I was not as thirsty, so I didn't drink as much water. I think it was from all the water in the fruits and veggies.

Great job on losing the weight!

Weez
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Re: Fat loss, fitness gain

#8 Postby Weez » Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:13 am

Eiji wrote:Yeah juices are ok once in awhile but not at the expense of the whole foods. Pea protein isolate is a waste of money. If you want pea protein eat peas. Whole foods are your ticket man! For extra protein rich smoothies add oats and soy milk.


I've been adding a scoop to smoothies and having a protein shake after workouts. I'm just trying to get my head around the whole process of not eating or taking bad advice and wrong supplements or foods. Should I stick to just a vega protein shake post workout? I am complete noob, I will take any and all advice/criticism.

Eiji wrote:
Weez wrote:I'm not in anyway looking to bulk up or build mass.

What exactly are you trying to do then? You do realize that stronger muscles are bigger than weak muscles and that any gains in strength that are not neural adaptations will be associated with muscle growth. BTW no one gets huge and jacked by accident. It takes years and years of focus on training and diet and often drugs are used to speed up the process or take it further than naturally possible. The fear of getting too big is a false fear unless you're addicted to barbell squats, and is often used IMO by people who don't want to train hard.


Sorry, don't misunderstand me, again I have no real clue here, I am learning. When I say that what I mean is I am not looking for BIG BIG power lifting strong man physique etc, physical fitness and lean muscle is my goal, but thanks clarifying a few things there. I understand the hard work and longevity of building and training, just want to make sure I am doing the right things for what I want to achieve in the long term.

Eiji wrote:Then comes the question of do you want to train to be fit?

And what is fit or fit enough for what? Will you be satisfied with mediocre? Is 20 push-ups good enough or will you want to be able to do 100 at a time?
Is being fit enough to walk up the mountain good enough or will you strive to be able to run up it?
Mediocre is easy and moderation is for pussies.


Physical peak, work work work to be the best I can be and more. So please don't get me wrong, I'm merely asking questions from non knowledgeable stand point... But at the same time I have a bit of timber and I do have some injuries to my shoulders that are slowing me down. What I don't want to do is push to the point I do more harm than good, if that's possible. A lot of the aches and pains I am getting post workouts are lasting up to 4 - 5 days at the minute on upper body and I am incredibly weak there as I never rehabbed the shoulders (muscular damage and tendon/ligament) I am trying to get the best and more energy into me so I can train longer and build up the aerobic strain (ex smoker as well) at the moment, I would struggle to go beyond 20 pushups without failing, early days I know, but I want to go further and train harder. I guess most will come with time, I just want to know I am on the right path with diet and correct exercises so I can practice. I'm managin 3 days a week of at least 1 hour training and fitting in some yoga to stretch out the tightness and pain, also managing some swimming which I feel is helping.

kathymtns wrote:I know I am not a guy, but I do agree with eating whole foods. I do smoothies every day and limit juices to every once in a while. I did do a detox program a while back and was eating a lot of whole foods, especially fruits and veggies and noticed I was not as thirsty, so I didn't drink as much water. I think it was from all the water in the fruits and veggies.

Great job on losing the weight!


Thanks! I've knocked the juices on the head for now, sticking to whole foods, nuts and oats in the morning with lemon water and green teas. I have notice that my water consumption has gone up, but I'm working on making sure I have enough food for the day, smoothies help a lot due to the job and I can keep them refrigerated in the van fridge when on site. But I think I am trying to eat/drink too much of them at the minute. I've switched to packed and balanced salads and bought a steamer for anything I don't want to eat raw.


Thanks for the input, I feel I am moving in the right direction and gaining more knowledge.

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Eiji
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Re: Fat loss, fitness gain

#9 Postby Eiji » Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:08 pm

Great.
To clarify my position on supplements:
IMO protein powder is not good and you should get your protein from whole food sources. Use up what you have and don't waste anymore money on them in the future.

Other supplements:
As a newbie you will not need any as gains will come quick. As you get more advanced you can add creatine for a little bit of extra power and intramuscular water retention.
Beta alanine can be added later if you need more muscular endurance but not necessary unless you want an edge on competion of some sort.

Most important things to consider are:
1. Effective training: dependent on specific goals
2. Effective recovery (sleep!, carbs pre and post wo)
3. Effective diet: whole foods, enough calories and micronutrients, hydration. A 60/20/20 for macros is good start.
Make no excuses to skip a training session. Feel stressed, sad, sick or tired? Go train. Your friends, your heart, mind and body will lie to you. Telling you that you need that recovery day. Go ahead, stay home. I'll be training that day and getting better no matter what.

Weez
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Re: Fat loss, fitness gain

#10 Postby Weez » Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:41 pm

Eiji wrote:Great.
To clarify my position on supplements:
IMO protein powder is not good and you should get your protein from whole food sources. Use up what you have and don't waste anymore money on them in the future.

Other supplements:
As a newbie you will not need any as gains will come quick. As you get more advanced you can add creatine for a little bit of extra power and intramuscular water retention.
Beta alanine can be added later if you need more muscular endurance but not necessary unless you want an edge on competion of some sort.

Most important things to consider are:
1. Effective training: dependent on specific goals
2. Effective recovery (sleep!, carbs pre and post wo)
3. Effective diet: whole foods, enough calories and micronutrients, hydration. A 60/20/20 for macros is good start.



Thanks for the input man, it's still a mine field in my head so I am relying on you guys here on the forum for as much guidance as possible, even more so as I am weak at the minute, especially shoulders and arms) and in a MEAT MEAT MEAT PROTEIN PROTEIN PROTEIN gym environment. I've actually not used the protein powder much up until I started hitting the training harder, I'd like to be supplement free as to me, they weren't available up until recently yet the idea of body building and leanness isn't a new thing. So thanks for that.

The one thing I DID want to clear up, in Roberts book Shred it! It's very clear on the working out "empty" i.e not using food as an energy source, but fat stores. Fat loss being my first goal. I've started training at 6am but have a bowl of porridge and water, dash of pink himalayan salt and sometimes some berries or flax. Usually 30 mins before the work out which is normally an hour before I start work. Should I just hit up some water instead THEN have a post workout porridge breakfast as such? I understand everyone is different and you have to rely on how you feel as well, but I don't want to go down a route of working out wrong vs. diet.

The reason I ask is I have noticed a slight plateau in fat loss as of late but also I have been feeling a lot hungrier through out the days as my energy has increased so I have naturally been eating more fruits and veggies, but also take on pre work out food - normally a banana or two and some water. Only referencing the book again it states that fruit carbs are used quicker than veg carbs, so the energy is gone before veggie carb energy. So if I understand this correctly I should try and work out long after eating and continue cardio post work out.

At the minute I am mixing weights with HIIT and aerobic.

I definitely need to hone the diet a lot more it would seem. Although my waist has shrunk from a 36 to a 32, the belly is taking a bit longer and still bloating. But the arms are starting to get some definition in the biceps and feeling stronger.

Thanks again, it's helped set my mind straight a little and give me a better idea where I need work, I can start blogging a bit better week by week. Practice and hard work.

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Re: Fat loss, fitness gain

#11 Postby Eiji » Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:36 pm

Look up the term "fat burns in a carbohydrate flame". The idea that to burn fat you must use it as a primary source of energy during workouts is outdated and broscience. Yes you will use fat when low on glycogen and blood sugar but you will also be forced into gluconeogenesis because you simply cannot utilize fatty acid metabolism for anaerobic activity. It's a much slower process. Your muscles run on glucose, well the atp to be more accurate that is produced from the glucose during glycolysis and the phosphocreatine pathway. The byproduct of that is pyruvate which enters the mitochondria with O2 or turns into lactic acid without O2.

Gluconeogenesis is making the glucose necessary for anaerobic metabolism from protein(from muscle tissue, that's bad). It is a very inefficient process with ammonia byproducts, that's bad too.

Don't even get me started on all the low carb ketosis nonsense. A basic understanding of physiology and cellular metabolism will show you that carbs are our most efficient fuel for high intensity movement and fat is our fuel for lower intensity movement. That's why we store glucose in our muscles and liver. And fat is stored in other areas. At very high intensity we use 100% glucose and that percentage drops and the percentage of fat utilized increases as the intensity lowers. It is never good to force our bodies to produce glucose from protein "muscle tissue or dietary" and all but the lowest intensity work will have you doing that in a carb depleted state. If you don't mind burning up muscle tissue to fuel your workouts then go right ahead.
Last edited by Eiji on Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make no excuses to skip a training session. Feel stressed, sad, sick or tired? Go train. Your friends, your heart, mind and body will lie to you. Telling you that you need that recovery day. Go ahead, stay home. I'll be training that day and getting better no matter what.

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Re: Fat loss, fitness gain

#12 Postby Eiji » Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:03 pm

Try and pack your carbs in pre and post wo. Do not workout on empty. But porridge 30 min before might be a bit much. If it was closer to 60 min pre or fruit 30 min pre that would be better because empty stomach is best. That doesn't mean your on empty though. Cardio can be done before, during, after or on a separate session. It doesn't matter. Post wo meal should be mostly carbs with some protein. White rice with tofu is good or bananas, oats, and soy milk smoothie.
I do 2 post wo meals one at <30 min after and another 60 min after that.
Concentrate on building muscle and the fat will go away. Like you are doing HIIT is good 1-2x per week and the other sessions focused on strength or cardio
Make no excuses to skip a training session. Feel stressed, sad, sick or tired? Go train. Your friends, your heart, mind and body will lie to you. Telling you that you need that recovery day. Go ahead, stay home. I'll be training that day and getting better no matter what.

kathymtns
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Re: Fat loss, fitness gain

#13 Postby kathymtns » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:27 am

Eiji, I get confused. I noticed in one of your other posts you said to eat 60/20/20. Is that 60 percent carbs, 20 percent protein and 20 percent fat?

Kathy

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Eiji
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Re: Fat loss, fitness gain

#14 Postby Eiji » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:26 pm

I wouldn't get hung up on a particular % but that is a good start. Yes carbs/protein/fats. That should be a good range to start if your workouts are primarily high intensity anaerobic and it is easily hit with whole foods. If you're doing lower intensity endurance than more fat would be needed. Also easy to hit with whole foods.
Make no excuses to skip a training session. Feel stressed, sad, sick or tired? Go train. Your friends, your heart, mind and body will lie to you. Telling you that you need that recovery day. Go ahead, stay home. I'll be training that day and getting better no matter what.

Weez
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Re: Fat loss, fitness gain

#15 Postby Weez » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:31 pm

Many thanks for the replies man, I think I am able to narrow down my diet now. You've been most helpful and put my mind on the right track. Fully stocked on just whole foods and ditched the juices and smoothies, water consumption has gone back up.

Been getting two good workouts in a week at the moment but want to push harder... the only problem I have noticed is kidney pain under high intensity circuit work, which really knocks me for six. It's holding me back big time as I struggle for breath. I need to get it checked out and see whether its organ or muscular. It seems to go away after a few minutes but then I lose my buzz and it comes back if I start back up again.

As for the supplements, I have completely ditched them... I know you've touched upon it, but I'd like to go supplement free... I will explore more on the site and the net but the B12 thing keeps popping up in front of me. Everywhere I go I hear conflicting arguments - 70 - 80% of vegans are deficient and should supplement OR B12 is made in the gut as a result of eating the right plant foods. I have noticed my energy is down a lot lately as I push harder on the work outs. But which is it... I got some vegan B12's to try, but I am a bugger for not remembering to take tabs.

Am I just getting to hung up on it?


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