Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

Healthy Food Defines You
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:06 pm 
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SeaSiren wrote:
I'm actually not in agreement on your diet and type of training for muscle building.


Why?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:20 pm 
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Zack wrote:
SeaSiren wrote:
I'm actually not in agreement on your diet and type of training for muscle building.


Why?


Good question! And let me start with, kurtjs, ya know I love ya babe! :wink: :)

For building I would have put him on higher fats, and higher protein, much more cals and very low cardio. Intense cardio can result in muscle loss or impeding your progress. I also don't believe in high fruits or root veggies for building. I do think he will build muscle on this, but think there is a faster route too. Again, JMO, it's up to kurtjs to do what he feels comfortable with.

A pre-wo, during work out and post wo diet as well.

Definition is not really a prob for him ... were talking about building size. Fat is much easier to lose than muscle is to build.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:39 pm 
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As far as I know he's only in the 130-140s or so weightwise, you really think he needs MORE than 160-200g protein?? :?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:55 pm 
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First off, thanks for reading Zack and Sea Siren. Both of you inspire me everyday so I'm glad that you two are checking in on me.

Zack - I agree, I take in a lot of protein right now and I'm trying to cut it down and add more fats and carbs - especially CARBS!!
But I'm also torn about the protein because of the source. Heck, I get 28 grams of protein from the 2 lbs of broccoli I eat during the day. So I almost want to increase my protein because lets face it, broccoli is not a very good source of protein.

Sea Siren - I agree, definition is not my problem and for me . .. losing fat is easier than gaining muscle. I need to get over this fear of being fat and JUST EAT!!

Sea Siren, I'd like to hear some more of your thoughts. I'll send you a PM and we can either chat that way or continue on in this thread. I'm sure everyone else would love to hear what you have to say. I'm all ears!!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:06 pm 
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Eat boy.

I just think for someone in the 140's, 200g is more than needed. I need to work on fat intake myself.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:46 pm 
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Zack wrote:
Eat boy.

I just think for someone in the 140's, 200g is more than needed. I need to work on fat intake myself.


We need to keep in mind the quality of this protein. In reality, I'm only getting 130-150 g of protein from the good quality sources such as gemma, vega, and soy. The rest of that protein (70g or more) comes from the grains, veggies, legumes, nuts, and seeds. We'll see what happens. I change my diet often and my macros often as well. Trying to see what works best.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:02 pm 
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kurtjs wrote:
Zack wrote:
Eat boy.

I just think for someone in the 140's, 200g is more than needed. I need to work on fat intake myself.


We need to keep in mind the quality of this protein. In reality, I'm only getting 130-150 g of protein from the good quality sources such as gemma, vega, and soy. The rest of that protein (70g or more) comes from the grains, veggies, legumes, nuts, and seeds. We'll see what happens. I change my diet often and my macros often as well. Trying to see what works best.


Why is protein from grains veggies legumes nuts and seeds not quality?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:32 pm 
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Zack wrote:
kurtjs wrote:
Zack wrote:
Eat boy.

I just think for someone in the 140's, 200g is more than needed. I need to work on fat intake myself.


We need to keep in mind the quality of this protein. In reality, I'm only getting 130-150 g of protein from the good quality sources such as gemma, vega, and soy. The rest of that protein (70g or more) comes from the grains, veggies, legumes, nuts, and seeds. We'll see what happens. I change my diet often and my macros often as well. Trying to see what works best.


Why is protein from grains veggies legumes nuts and seeds not quality?


Don't get me wrong . . . it is. As long as all the amino acids are there . . . the body doesn't know if they came from plant or animal.

Just getting back to the 200g . . . 200 grams is 1.5 grams/lbs of bw. Usually, the bbing "gurus" say to get between 1-1.5 per lbs of bw. For me that would be 132g to 198g . . . so I'm at the high end. I don't know where I'm going with this . . . So I'm just going to go eat!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:59 pm 
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Public may be better, since it may assist others .... however, if it makes you uncomfortable, please let me know.

Protein 260-270. I doubled mine and my gains are much better. Are you opposed to using supps? I can help you with faster gains if you aren't. All perfectly "legal" for natty comps.

I'll give you my reasoning and how I personally would have you doing was I in charge of you :lol:

Make your own decisions from there :wink:

I'm also working up something from Pamela, Josh and a lady on T-Nation. Yes.... I have already been working with people and "becoming" officially certified PT and nutritionist very shortly. Already know the info and certainly been in it long enough, just need to test out at this point.

And for anyone following, this would be SPECIFICALLY designed for his goals which are to build muscle mass for competition faster.

I already know he has the drive to do it since he has already competed, otherwise, in all seriousness, I wouldn't have offered.

NOW getting over your fear of putting on too much fat are upping your cals, we need to work on. Do a look up on some of the big guys in the industry and find their "off season pics" .... like Lee Priest for instance..... very enlightening. :)


Last edited by SeaSiren on Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:03 pm 
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I've seen pics of Lee. He's one of my all time favorites. And yeah . . . he gets huge off season, in a bad way . . . but to his credit . . . he always looks amazing!!

What are your suggestions for supps. Please feel free to PM or post here.

Creatine, Beta-alanine, Arginine???

How high for the fat? 100g? 150g?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:11 pm 
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SeaSiren wrote:

Protein 260-270.


Is that how much you take in? That seems somewhat excessive. I'm not a low protein advocate or anything, but the byproduct of protein breakdown is ammonia...which is poisonous. You think his body can utilize 260 grams a day?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:18 pm 
Nobody here is big enough to break down enough muscle to require that much protein for mass outside of the few very large forum members we have. If you aren't big you just can't damage that much muscle...its quite simple.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:28 pm 
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I take 2 grams per lb of body weight .... as per mentioned MY recommendation for a bodybuilder.

Potter, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. IMO he needs to be building like a main streamer who happens to be vegan.

Tired as per long weekend ... will go into more detail later.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:35 pm 
Lets say for instance that he can use 150g of that 250g a day...this means he'd gain ten pounds of muscle a month...not gonna happen. If he used 250g and took it 270(the rest would go to vital functions) he'd gain about 13lbs per month...also not gonna happen.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:45 pm 
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GOD I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE!!


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