Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

Healthy Food Defines You
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:55 pm 
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Mastodon

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:31 am
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Location: eh?
I'm gonna have to say I agree with potter pretty much. I was 175 in August when I started...I'm about 188 now. Most of that is lean mass, as my body fat has not increased and may have actually slightly decreased. I've been taking about 120-130g protein per day since then. I just hit the 4 month mark the other day. That's about 1 lean pound per week. From the research I've done, most people say 1 lean pound a week is about as good as it gets for muscle gains. So If I doubled that, where would the extra go?

Explain?

Protein is necessary, I just think 2g/lb is excessive. :?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:21 pm 
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:lol: A debate is always good. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:40 pm 
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Elephant

Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 11:05 pm
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Excerpt from article regarding some in the big leagues babe:
Quote:
I personally am an overkill guy---I would much rather maybe take in too much protein and excrete the excess than worry about taking in inadequate amounts of protein and losing out on muscle mass I would of gained and wasting these workouts (that Im killing myself with)---I'd rather use cardio and low/trace carbs after 6pm to keep my bodyfat levels in check than be safe and take in 2500 calories and worry about half filled glycogen stores or worse yet catabolism of muscle. My mindset is to turn someone into a machine--heavy weights, high protein, filled glycogen stores, use the treadmill to solve the excess--it sure as hell isnt easy but its the fastest way Ive found to get someone from point A to point B. And woody if you think a 6 foot 170lb man with average genetics can turn himself into a 6 foot 300lb superheavyweight bodybuilder on 2500 calories a day, and 200 grams of protein a day your sadly misinformed. You can look at world class powerlifters in the lower (under 200lb)classes. They are lifting shit heavy, many are using boatloads of drugs, why the hell arent they getting dramatically bigger if thats all thats needed? Food thats why. Now you put a superheavy 360lb powerlifter on the treadmill 6 times a week for 45-60 minutes a day and low trace carbs after 6pm and Ill show you a massive bodybuilder in about 3 months.


PMing you the link. Let me know your thoughts. Will post link seperate, once you have. FYI - got the supps down too for you you if you want to give a whirl.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:26 am 
The thing is...that excess is extremely unhealthy and its darn near impossible to have have enough so even a little more is excess so there's no point. You can however use extra calories for energy(preferably carbs). That extra energy means extra training which means more potential to tear your muscles up before you let them recover. Eat less carbs...train less...grow less. Less carbs is fine and your only choice for getting really lean fast but that doesn't mean you need more protein...just a lot less food. But if you want more muscle I say carb it up and train more.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:30 pm 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:11 pm
Posts: 182
Location: cheshire, connecticut
I got so caught up in everyone's discussion about the best ways to gain mass I never posted my workouts.

12/30/07

Chest/biceps/and abs w/ fellow VBB forum member Harley.

INCLINE DB PRESS - 3 SETS
up to 60 pounders

FLAT DB FLYS - 3 SETS
up to 45 pounders

INCLINE HAMMER STRENGTH PRESS -3 SETS (LAST SET DROP SET)
up to 60 lbs

STANDING BARBELL CURLS - 3 SETS
up to 70 lbs

SPIDER CURLS - 3 SETS (LAST SET DROP SET)
up to 65 lbs

LIFE FITNESS OBLIQUE MACHINE - 3 SETS
up to 130 lbs

All sets were pretty much pyramid sets. Start with one weight, get the reps, and then increase the weight for the next. Tried to keep the reps between 6-12.

Harley was great. We never actually met before, but just talked through this site. She brought me brownies . . . A++. Let me know when your in town again Harley, I'd love to train with you again

12/31/07 (<- last time I type 07)

Shoulders and triceps

SEATED BB MILITARY PRESS - 3 SETS
up to 95 lbs

STANDING DB SHRUGS - 3 SETS
up to 100 pounders

STANDING DB LATERALS - 3 SETS
up to 30 pounders

BEHIND THE BACK SMITH MACHINE SHRUG - 3 SETS
up to 2.5 plates per side

REVERSE PEC DECK - 3 SETS
up to 100 lbs

CLOSE GRIP BENCH - 3 SETS
up to 115 lbs

STANDING CABLE PRESSDOWNS - 3 SETS
UP TO 65 LBS

Chest was a bit stiff today from yesterday's workout. Some of the pressing moves suffered (military press and close grip). Normally, I wouldn't work chest one day then shoulders and tris the next but I'm lifting with a friend tomm. so I'm trying to get my split in line with his.

Tonight I'm off to - what should be - a great dinner at a local restaurant with some very good friends. Hopefully not too late of a night, LEGS TOMM!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:34 pm 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:11 pm
Posts: 182
Location: cheshire, connecticut
Last night I went out to dinner. The meal was great as the food was excellent. Only problem was that It was like 7-8 little "courses" spread over 3 hours, which equalled me not getting full. When I got back to my friend's house they still had desserts from x-mas, I dug in and ate quite a few coconut cookies and coconut candies . . . I'm a bit disgusted by my actions . . . but hell . . . I'm trying to gain weight.


Now to the good stuff, brought in 2008 with a bang. LEG DAY!! Just got back from Gold's Gym in New Haven (a gym I don't normally train at) with a good friend of mine. I'm doing my best to remember all weights and reps (some may have been more or less) but it went something like this

SQUATS
95 x 15
135 x 12
155 x 10
185 x 8
225 x 4-6
245 x 3-4

HACK SQUAT
1 plate x 15
2 plates x 10
3 plates x 4-6
3 plates x 4-6

BARBELL LUNGE (w/ a bar that I've never used before, it had a some serious padding around the neck area)

bar + 10's - 10 reps per leg
bar + 25's - 12-14 reps per leg
bar + 45's - 3-4 reps per leg

LYING HAM-STRING CURL
50 x 15
70 x 8
70 x 6-8
70 x 6-8

SEATED LEG EXTENSIONS (starting knee angle less than 90 degrees)
90 x 15
110 x 12
125 x 12

This was one hell of a workout. My friend helped me with a spot on the squats and also helped me with some forced reps on the lying leg curl and some negatives on the leg curl and leg extensions. My legs area already sore.
Just for comparison, my friend was squatting 455 pounds, hack squating 5-45 pound plates + a 100 pound plate (325 lbs per side = 650 lbs plus weight of sled ~ 700 pounds). INSANE . . . talk about motivating!! I'm supposed to work back with him tomm. night. I can't wait!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:18 pm 
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Elephant
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Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:05 am
Posts: 2396
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden, Europe
veganpotter wrote:
Lets say for instance that he can use 150g of that 250g a day...this means he'd gain ten pounds of muscle a month...not gonna happen. If he used 250g and took it 270(the rest would go to vital functions) he'd gain about 13lbs per month...also not gonna happen.

It's about more than just the amino acids per se. If that was the only thing a bodybuilder could get away with 50g/day or less.
It's about boosting hormones and other effects in your body that'll make you grow faster. As Denise says, it works for her and I know many others for whom it works. Personally I don't want to gamble with my future health and I think I'm big enough already so I would never do it. There is a prize to pay, I'm almost certain of it, there simply are no shortcuts without side effects. Eating those amounts of protein from those sources is highly unnatural, I think we can all agree on that.

Hope I wasn't too much of a buzz kill... :D

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:24 pm 
Of course it works but that doesn't mean its best. I don't know many bodybuilders that have tried the high carb low protein diet. However I know many athletes...that aren't bodybuilders...or vegans that are larger than bodybuilders despite the fact that gaining muscle is a side effect to their training. They don't want muscle...they want strength...they eat high carbs and a usable amount of protein. Despite that they're bigger than people that focus exclusively on gaining muscle. I think thats a major problem and it shows how much is going to waste.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:40 am 
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Elephant
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Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:46 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: Atlanta, Ga
veganpotter wrote:
vegans that are larger than bodybuilders despite the fact that gaining muscle is a side effect to their training.

Who??

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:31 pm 
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Rabbit
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Location: cheshire, connecticut
Another training session with my friend at Gold's gym (god I love that place!!)

BACK!!
(All exercises had 1-2 warmup sets and then 2-3 working sets to failure. The weights were usually increased each set. I really don't remember all the reps and weight, but I remember the last one or two sets of each exercise)

DEADLIFTS (not the best form but a pull is a pull)
285 x 2 PR
285 x 2 PR

BENTOVER BAR ROWS
185 x 2-4

WIDE GRIP PULLDOWN
140 ~ 4

SEATED HAMMER STRENGTH LOW ROW
2.5 plates ~ 4

CLOSE GRIP PULLDOWNS
150 ~ 4

PULL-OVER MACHINE
120 x 6

CARDIO - had to keep my friend company. He's been doing/done more for me than I can even begin to tell you all about.

treadmill - 30 mins - 3.0-3.6 mph w/ 0 incline post workout


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:53 pm 
xveganjoshx wrote:
veganpotter wrote:
vegans that are larger than bodybuilders despite the fact that gaining muscle is a side effect to their training.

Who??


Martina Navratilova's is one great example of a vegan being more muscular than most female bodybuilders. I have two friends...both vegans(twins) and gymnasts that are more muscular than every woman on the forum and they rarely work out anymore(no offense)...a good buddy of mine never lifts weights...he's a custom woodworker(I went to school with him) that rivals everyone's build here(in terms of lean muscle mass) besides Daywalker. He was actually on the raw diet for a year when I met him and he was very muscular...since then he's eating a standard vegan diet and is still the same size without any training and is muscular just from lifting wood in his studio...obviously he doesn't snowboard much anymore since he lives in Richmond.

As for non vegans not training for bodybuilding...all you need to do is look at pictures of the top 100-200m sprinters in the world. Pretty much all of the sprinters that aren't over 6' are more muscular than podium finishing natural bodybuilders. They actually don't want muscle...they want to have a good power to weight ratio but its hard to do that and stay small. In general these guys aren't really heavy protein eaters relative to the rest of their diets. They eat heavy on the carbs and eat sustainable amounts of protein.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:53 pm 
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Mastodon

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:31 am
Posts: 4815
Location: eh?
You are super strong for your weight. I'm jealous! :)

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Lifts:
250 Bench
445 Deadlift
335 Squat


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:14 am 
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Elephant

Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 11:05 pm
Posts: 2652
This girl?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:18 am 
Yes...but she's 50years old in that picture


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:41 am 
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Elephant

Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 11:05 pm
Posts: 2652
No offense taken .... I'm figure and fitness model ... not BBing division (nor want too).

But still not following. Are you saying she can or could have competed against the women below. Or are you saying she was big for vegan? And the gymnast? They have more muscle than these gals too?

One of the top BBing Gals Iris Kyle:
Image
Another Dayana Cadeau:
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