Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

Healthy Food Defines You
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:59 am 
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Elephant

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Bigbwii wrote:
I learnt that supplements are a hot subject for people you will always have the for's and againts. When I was fruitarian people always said I had to eat greens or I would die! now I'm in the same boat as Kollision even if I wanted to I couldn't because of money! these things are designed for you to be coming back to buy more at some stage! I really don't believe that they work anyway and the ones that do " the live stuff" are real expensive!

B12 is a funny vitamin because it's so unaccessable! why is it so unaccessable, there's got to be a reason? what are we doing wrong that we are missing out on getting regular top ups? if we were stuck on a island how would we get this vitamin, would we kill an animal for it, eat dirt? is getting it from fortified foods really that safe? is it so unaccessable because we make it in our intestines like animals do? How do you get so deficient in this that you get ill, is it our diets? Why do we have to manufacture it?I just don't get it!!!


Nicely stated. I personally don't plan on living long, just me :wink: I don't even know how to take this idea. People claim that milk does a body good, yet others say we can't even absorb the calcium. Imagine if a vegan told someone else that milk doesn't work, they would be laughed at. I believe we are sort of in the same boat, just against each other in regards of B12.

VeganEssentials wrote:
I definitely don't want to come off as lecturing because I neither have a well-balanced diet nor do I have a great supplementation routine, that's for sure.

However, I do think that for the very few things we as vegans should worry about dietary-wise, B-12 shouldn't be neglected for how easy it is to obtain. Getting more than you need isn't going to damage your health, but having a deficiency will be something that you obviously do NOT want to experience (see the B-12 thread for a story regarding that!) We often assume that because we eat "healthy" foods that we could never have a problem, and I'd hate to see people have to suffer because they thought that supplementing something essential for proper function isn't a valid thing to do. As you can see in the other thread, there can be issues with our bodies' absorption potential, and the miniscule amount of some vitamins that we sometimes get might not be enough through everyday eating, particularly if it is like B-12 and not an easy thing to find in your daily vegan meals. I may carry some spare weight on me which isn't necessarily the greatest thing, but I sure don't plan on simple supplementation to prevent potential illness that could steal months of my life!

I know that money is really tight for some people, but we have to ask ourselves, when an item costs something in the range of 5 cents per day for a dose, can we REALLY say that we don't spend far more than that on something we could easily eliminate from our daily habit once or twice to pay for it? Coffee, soft drinks, a Clif bar....we all have our indulgences that we don't consider to be frivolous, but all it takes is denying them once in a while to afford things that really matter. I think proper insurance for our health should come at the top of this, even if it isn't "fun" to think about.

Sorry, getting a bit carried away here. I just think that being vegan and being healthy go hand-in-hand and I'd hate to see anyone pay the price with their health for something really simple and preventable. The choice is ultimately everyone's to decide, but if the time comes that something does in fact happen, you can't undo the damage.


I wasn't talking about you Vegan :wink: I don't make my own income, and I am hesitant at even buying food to eat because of prices. I dont go out to get things that I don't need, and when that even pops in my head, I still save my money.

I am healthy right now, and I am happy. If my B12 stores get depleted, its none of my concern. Like I mentioned above, I don't plan on living long either way :wink:

Guillermo wrote:
It costs $2.19 for a carton of soymilk fortified with B12 at my local supermarket. Have you tried shopping around?


Its about 4 something down here.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:02 pm 
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kollision wrote:
What I am saying is that money is tight. Even 9 bucks is a lot of money for me. If you are going to send me some for free or buy it for me, then you are in the position to talk. If you don't, you can just speak your mind on how B12 is beneficial, but don't try to come and lecture me on what to take if you aint gonna provide it. (not you veganessential, but I mean in general)

The topic is, "Do you not take supplements", it's a simple question. Not, "Lecture others that they are wrong".


Give me your address in pm and I'll buy you a three year supply.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:09 pm 
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Gorilla

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Bigbwii wrote:
B12 is a funny vitamin because it's so unaccessable! why is it so unaccessable, there's got to be a reason? what are we doing wrong that we are missing out on getting regular top ups? if we were stuck on a island how would we get this vitamin, would we kill an animal for it, eat dirt? is getting it from fortified foods really that safe? is it so unaccessable because we make it in our intestines like animals do? How do you get so deficient in this that you get ill, is it our diets? Why do we have to manufacture it?I just don't get it!!!

http://www.fruitarian.com/ac/Nutritiona ... Fruits.htm

1. Maybe without B-12 you die at like 40 or something. That's plenty long enough to have children and your children to have children. And the average life expectancy throughout much of humankind has been below 40.

2. People didn't used to wash food as well/weren't as clean. And you could get some B-12 from dirt/insects droppings, etc I think.

3. Also I think that maybe throughout most of mankind's history they maybe ate meat once or twice a month or something (could vary widely of course) and that gave a nice chunk of B-12.

I didn't have time to look at the articles BB but will later.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:30 pm 
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Elephant
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I agree Jay! I think that back in the dawn of time we would of got what we needed from all kinds of organic sources as you stated. I personal have my doubts that modern day supplements really work :wink: I even have doubts that we get any of what we need from wholefoods due to the cooking process! Well done on your offer to get Kollision his B12! :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:43 am 
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I do not take any supplements (original question).
Concerning B12 I will have my B12-status checked soon and then know if I have to take b12 additionally or not... I think it is not very clever to supplement something withput knowing if it is enough in the body.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:19 pm 
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Kollision wrote:
Quote:
Guillermo wrote:
It costs $2.19 for a carton of soymilk fortified with B12 at my local supermarket. Have you tried shopping around?


Its about 4 something down here


Wow, that's too expensive! Here in London at my local supermarket (Tesco), a litre of fortified soy milk costs 0.68p, around $1.16!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:26 am 
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Jay wrote:
kollision wrote:
What I am saying is that money is tight. Even 9 bucks is a lot of money for me. If you are going to send me some for free or buy it for me, then you are in the position to talk. If you don't, you can just speak your mind on how B12 is beneficial, but don't try to come and lecture me on what to take if you aint gonna provide it. (not you veganessential, but I mean in general)

The topic is, "Do you not take supplements", it's a simple question. Not, "Lecture others that they are wrong".


Give me your address in pm and I'll buy you a three year supply.


Wow you serious bro?

Quote:
1. Maybe without B-12 you die at like 40 or something. That's plenty long enough to have children and your children to have children. And the average life expectancy throughout much of humankind has been below 40.


Thats around the age range Id like to end life at personally.

Quote:
2. People didn't used to wash food as well/weren't as clean. And you could get some B-12 from dirt/insects droppings, etc I think.


Hrmm I have been hearing that from Bigbwii as well. Wouldn't not washing it also lead to a more susceptibility to getting sick?

Bigbwii wrote:
I agree Jay! I think that back in the dawn of time we would of got what we needed from all kinds of organic sources as you stated. I personal have my doubts that modern day supplements really work Wink I even have doubts that we get any of what we need from wholefoods due to the cooking process! Well done on your offer to get Kollision his B12! Wink


Ya if it's true, thanks!

I too have my personal opinions on supplements as well.

Cristian wrote:
Wow, that's too expensive! Here in London at my local supermarket (Tesco), a litre of fortified soy milk costs 0.68p, around $1.16!


Yup it is hehe.

Flanders77 wrote:
I do not take any supplements (original question).
Concerning B12 I will have my B12-status checked soon and then know if I have to take b12 additionally or not... I think it is not very clever to supplement something withput knowing if it is enough in the body.


Hrmm, can you tell us how they check it? Is it via the blood? I agree with your statement as well, with all the controversy of it going on with different research articles claiming it and disproving it.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:37 am 
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Elephant
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kollision wrote:
Hrmm, can you tell us how they check it? Is it via the blood? I agree with your statement as well, with all the controversy of it going on with different research articles claiming it and disproving it.

Yes and as far as I know they can check both blood level and the storage (in the liver mainly) as well. I will tell you when I did the test.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:10 am 
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flanders77 wrote:
kollision wrote:
Hrmm, can you tell us how they check it? Is it via the blood? I agree with your statement as well, with all the controversy of it going on with different research articles claiming it and disproving it.

Yes and as far as I know they can check both blood level and the storage (in the liver mainly) as well. I will tell you when I did the test.


Thanks a lot Flanders. Hope your stuff returns back healthy :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:31 am 
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Gorilla

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kollision wrote:
Wow you serious bro?

Yeah I'll get you the ten dollar spray from VE.

Quote:
Quote:
1. Maybe without B-12 you die at like 40 or something. That's plenty long enough to have children and your children to have children. And the average life expectancy throughout much of humankind has been below 40.


Thats around the age range Id like to end life at personally.

As you like. A lot smokers have that idea but I haven't seen any who were happy when they were dying of lung cancer.

Quote:
Quote:
2. People didn't used to wash food as well/weren't as clean. And you could get some B-12 from dirt/insects droppings, etc I think.


Hrmm I have been hearing that from Bigbwii as well. Wouldn't not washing it also lead to a more susceptibility to getting sick?

I dunno.

Anyway I'm not a fan of supplements but I strongly think that vegans need to make sure to get adequate B-12 and omega 3's.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:45 am 
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I had a friend who was vegan, and after 3 years they got ill from lack of B12 and had to get shots at the doctors; they hadn't taken any B12 for 3 years. Well that's what they said anyway. The doctor may have been inept. I hear lots of horror stories about how doctors don't understand nutrition or veganism, and they assume stuff must be wrong with you if you're on a vegan diet.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:34 am 
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Frankly, I'm quite concerned about vegans who blithly dismiss the need for B12, not just because they are risking their own health, but because we vegans each seen to represent "all vegans" to many people, and being sickly and/or dying young from a preventable illness reflects badly on veganism.

Vegan specialists like Neal Barnard, etc. all say that it is necessary to find some source of it (and the fact that our bodies produce it isn't an argument against taking some form of it in the diet, since it seems that the area where it is produced in the intestines is farther down than the area where it is best absorbed). If you grow your own veggies, and eat them after just lightly rinsing, that might provide some B12 (which is from a bacteria, like what grows in the soil, or on festering flesh!).

Kollision, please take your fellow forum member up on his offer to buy you your B12 supply. You're young enough that dying at 40 seems like a fine idea, but it probably won't when you're 35. And B12 deficiency won't necessarily lead to a quick death, but to very troublesome illness and nervous disorders.


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