I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succeeding

Share your training programs, favorite exercises, training secrets and tips with the rest of the group. Discuss contest preparation, off-season diets, carb depleting and loading, posing, and training programs.

Moderators: Mini Forklift Ⓥ, C.O., Richard, robert, SyrLinus

Message
Author
boardn10
Manatee
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:37 am

I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succeeding

#1 Postby boardn10 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:03 pm

Any advice would be helpful. I don't know where to go next. I lift hard, eat a lot but still can't get past 6'3" and 200lbs. I did hit 225 at one point but that was a while ago and much has happened since then.

It is very frustrating to say the least. Been at this game for 23 years and never satisfied. Most people would never ever know I bodybuild, although you can tell with my shirt off......but I am still too thin for what I want. It causes me a lot of depression. :(

Unfortunately I am on a restricted diet, limited grains, limited starchy vegetables, no gluten, nothing processed, etc. Real pain in the arse.

Right now I am trying a power lifting program of deadlifts, squats, cleans, etc.....

-Rich
Last edited by boardn10 on Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What do I do when not bodybuilding or working? Spend time with family, play guitar, write music, snowboard, roast coffee, travel, read, fight for those who are less fortunate than myself.

User avatar
Fallen_Horse
Elephant
Posts: 2341
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Contact:

Re: I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succee

#2 Postby Fallen_Horse » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:12 pm

Beans, soy, and protein powder.
Learning how to be compassionate, gain wisdom, and love life.

finah
Finch
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:11 am

Re: I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succee

#3 Postby finah » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:42 am

post up ur diet and plan man so we can take a look

User avatar
Cold Fission
Gorilla
Posts: 804
Age: 27
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:37 am
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succee

#4 Postby Cold Fission » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:08 am

Like finah said, post ur diet.

it must be hard on a strict diet but keep determined and you will reach your goals.
I love you (♥ó㉨ò)ノ♡

NicholasV
Rabbit
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:48 am
Location: NJ, USA

Re: I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succee

#5 Postby NicholasV » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:25 am

If you did bodybuilding type exercises and used muscle magazine false training theory for 20 years that will get you nowhere, no matter how hard you try. The only way for most non-freaks to make progress like that is by becoming a chemical-pharmacological lab.

But if you persist in the big exercises like you mentioned: deadlifts, squats, cleans then you should make strength gains and pack on muscular bodyweight provided you learn proper form, programming, nutrition.

boardn10
Manatee
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:37 am

Re: I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succee

#6 Postby boardn10 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:48 am

Well through college I did the usual 5 days a week, hitting all body parts twice...

Then in the past 10 years I switched to each body part once a week. In most of my lifting years I never did much squatting or deadlifting. I only recently got into these.
I also had some health issues in recent years that have held me back big time! I have also read all of Clarence Bass's books, I read the Mike Mentzer books and the Stuart McRobert's books which got me thinking more in terms of only big compound exercises, consistenty and innfrequent workouts. It's weird because some guys on the forum swear by hi frequency.

One thing I worry about is muscle over-lap! For example, I did trap bar deadlifts on Tuesday and my upper back was sore so I know there is lat involement. Then Thursday I did an upper back workout...essentially doing lats again. :(

The dietary restrictions have hindered me too, no soy, no gluten, no corn and no peanuts!
That leaves almost no meat substituers for me! I used to eat a lot of tofu stir fry for example. I have to avoid flours/breads/pastas, etc. As a result I have started adding in some organic dairy and eggs. I don't know what else to eat because I have to limit starchy vegetables, beans, oats, etc due to a candida infection. The last part is debatable so I might be adding some back in...

What do I eat? Keep in mind I added some eggs and dairy back in but not sure for how long!

I have 1-2 protein shakes a day
Keep in mind I don't typically eat three meals...I tend to eat 6 meals a day or sometimes I will eat breakfast, lunch and dinner and some large snacks in between....
Typical breakfast:
large bowl gluten free steel cut oats with almon milk and veggie spread, some berries OR almond flour/quinoa pancakes with berries OR red skin potatoes/onions, bowl of amaranth OR large bowl of creamed buckwheat. Lately I did some plain yogurt and some eggs with some gluten free oats, etc. I tend to mix and match. I miss my soy yogurt. :(

Typical snacks through the day:
all sorts of nuts and seeds, almond butter and a green apple OR Grapefruit and some yogurt or veggies and hummis and nuts OR brown rice and veggies OR bean soup, etc
Sometimes quinoa, gluten free oatmeal, etc.

Typical Lunch:
Beans and rice dish with veggies, some fruit, and maybe some yogurt OR vegetarian indian food and sometimes with a large salad with nuts.

Typical dinner:
Large vegetarian stew, avocados, salad OR some form of veggie stir fry and wild rice OR Fallafal, salad, avocado, fruit OR bean dish with veggies, etc

The no startchy carbs thing and no gluten or soy is horrible for me. I miss those! I hate to think I'd have to add in chicken. :(
What do I do when not bodybuilding or working? Spend time with family, play guitar, write music, snowboard, roast coffee, travel, read, fight for those who are less fortunate than myself.

User avatar
Northstar
Manatee
Posts: 207
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Canada

Re: I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succee

#7 Postby Northstar » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:58 am

Eggs and dairy are probably worse for yeast than any beans or starches... especially dairy. Who told you you cant eat beans or starches? I think they were bullshitting you. I would just stay away from all refined sugars, coffee, vinegar, stored potatoes, wheat, high fructose fruits, and especially dairy for starters.
How many calories a day do you eat? Personally I can eat 4000 a day and not gain a pound... I would have to go 6000+ to gain any serious mass. I would up your calories by a large margin and see what happens. No gluten or soy should not be a problem, no corn and peanuts are a non-issue.

User avatar
Richard
Site Admin
Posts: 6064
Age: 34
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succee

#8 Postby Richard » Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:09 pm

Yo, not sure if I can help or not, and you probably follow some of these things anyway, but these are a few suggestions off the top of my head:

- Eat protein as soon as you can after doing weight training

- Eat enough protein through the day, but you'll get different feedback on how much that should be

- When lifting weights, set a number of reps that will be your maximum, and as soon as you are able to lift that weight that many times, put the weight up so that you can't do that many, and keep going like that to get up the weights. Try not to get stuck with just one weight doing the same amount of reps each time

- Try cutting down the number of days you workout each week to give your body time to recover, if you are feeling an ache in your body, don't work that part of your body

- Experiment in changing the order of exercises in the gym, as well as type of exercise, and different approaches to sets (breakdowns, super sets, negatives and so on, things that shock your body and present new challenges)

- Consider doing "high intensity" workouts, where you hit your whole body each time you go the gym, doing only 1 set per exercise. This allows you to put your full energy into each exercise rather than starting off strong, then getting weaker and more fatigued as you go along, thus you can't lift as much by the end. High intensity workouts are quicker and you could very well lift more weight because of it (it has been working for me)

- Don't do cardio before lifting weights, and consider cutting down on cardio if you want to put on weight (you don't need to do a lot of cardio if your goal is not weight loss)

Hope these might spark some ideas!
Image

boardn10
Manatee
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:37 am

Re: I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succee

#9 Postby boardn10 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:16 pm

eggs cause candida? One thing though...vinegar has been shown to kill candida. Also.......good point because in studies...vegetarians have been shown to have more of the good flora in their systems than meat eaters, but I have no idea how the tests were conducted.

Richard, thanks bro. You play guitar? Me too!

Yep...the protein stuff is a never ending debate. Personally I never noticed big differences one way or another eating hughe amounts of protein or not. I always try to get a protein shake in right after a workout.

Yep, I know all about progressive resistance. I was a power lifter at Penn State in the early 90s and if I put a little more into diet and cut back on how often I worked out...I probably could have competed in some bodybuilding competitions.

One problem with me is I LOVE training...I could spend all day in the gym and obviously that is not good....but it kills me when I have to leave the gym. Feels like home to me.

I am still a little worried about overlap when doing the big compund movements. Always have been. For example....deadlifts and a back workout in the same week essentially hits the lats twice.

I never workout if I am sore...but this brings me back to the overlap. I am doing deadlifts and squats now and deadlifts hit the upper back so I might have to rethick my workout.
Maybe I could try a push/pull system with legs as a seprate day. Something like this:
Monday - push or chest/shoulder
Thursday - legs
Monday - Pull or back
Thursday - push
and so on ......So essentially 10 days between workouts hitting the same body parts.

Yep I do breakdowns, super sets, negatives, super sets, compounds, rest/pause and so on, things that shock the body...but I also think they can quickly lead to over training.
I have been thinking about trying HIT again as I did in the late 90s but I recall it is brutall in that I do not always have THAT intensity in the gym so one day could be killer and another so-so....I know Clarence Bass is a big HIT sort of guy.
I never do cardio before weights. When I was a personal trainer, that was always a shock to people. LOL
I cut out cardio completely...only some moderate walking.
What do I do when not bodybuilding or working? Spend time with family, play guitar, write music, snowboard, roast coffee, travel, read, fight for those who are less fortunate than myself.

NicholasV
Rabbit
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:48 am
Location: NJ, USA

Re: I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succee

#10 Postby NicholasV » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:29 pm

boardn10. sorry to say but you know nothing of good training theory. You should really look into reading the book Starting Strength. I have tried Mike Mentzer's crappy HIT system and read one of his books. The bottom line is he was a steroided up bodybuilder, so he didn't know or need to know training theory. Like all bodybuilders he compensates his ignorance in the field by resorting to chemical help. The worst of it all is that while bodybuilding is not a popular sport to watch, its chemical experiment freaks have managed to distort totally what good training theory is and isn't.

The body and mind are total neuromuscular system. So saying Monday is back day, Thursday is arm day, is a false paradigm, a fruitless path. General guidelines for good training: exhaust the neuromuscular system by doing big compound exercises and give at least one day of rest. Also don't go to failure and do negatives which are too taxing, you just want to breakdown your muscles enough to grow, not have your body spend all its effort, natural HGH and recuperation at regenerating yourself to the level you were before this over exertion.
Last edited by NicholasV on Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Richard
Site Admin
Posts: 6064
Age: 34
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succee

#11 Postby Richard » Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:34 am

From what you've said, I'd say perhaps you are training too frequently. If you're worried about overlap, then doing full-body workouts will get rid of that, since you can't overlap when you do that, you either have a training day, or a rest day, so it's simpler. Right now I am only eating 60-100g of protein a day, and I weigh around 12 stone, and I am seeing gains.
Image

User avatar
Marcina
Elephant
Posts: 2277
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:39 pm
Location: BC Canada
Contact:

Re: I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succee

#12 Postby Marcina » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:36 pm

I gain the most muscle by working out (compound exercises) about 3 times a week or so. I'm an ectomorph, and I always have intense workouts. I do a split routine, and train for about 45 minutes per session. I sweat through the whole thing, and always lift heavy enough so that I'm gritting my teeth with that last rep.

I also take creatine, which I think helps.
Have you tried hemp protein? Is it available where you are? I take it everyday. It's very energizing.

User avatar
el_flaco
Rabbit
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:54 am
Location: London, UK

Re: I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succee

#13 Postby el_flaco » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:43 pm

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned that 6'3 and 200lbs isn't bad going.

What kind of weights do you lift?

Why is your diet restricted?

User avatar
el_flaco
Rabbit
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:54 am
Location: London, UK

Re: I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succee

#14 Postby el_flaco » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:49 pm

NicholasV wrote:boardn10. sorry to say but you know nothing of good training theory.

Why do you feel the need to preface all your advice with insults? From the deadlift thread:

NicholasV wrote:Your technique is horrible, sorry.


Try being nice to people, you'll find you don't need to apologise all the time. We can't all be 6'1 130lbs internet gurus.

NicholasV
Rabbit
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:48 am
Location: NJ, USA

Re: I am really sick of trying to gain muscle and not succee

#15 Postby NicholasV » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:58 pm

There is a right and wrong on issues like this, not everyone being equally right like you imagine. There is correct training theory which hardly anyone knows and popularized crap from bodybuilders that has everyone lifting and quitting after a few weeks or months from seeing no progress. Mike Mentzer who boardn10 is citing was a disciple of Arthur Jones, the man who ruined the once well established barbell lifting culture of the USA with his Nautilus machines.

Personally I know correct training theory and correct technique, my problem has always been lack of dedication and commitment. I always stop lifting for a few months, a year, miss workouts and I keep having to work up back to where I was before. Lately I have had to climb back from not lifting for a year due to becoming vegetarian and vegan. Also I have transitioned to healthy vegan which is even more difficult. I use to rely on eating almost exclusively my mom's cooking and and pre-packaged microwave crap with meat, and I still have not adapted.


Return to “Bodybuilding/Strength Training”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests