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 Post subject: Fruit and Veggie diet for Bodybuilding
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:00 pm 
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Manatee
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I am thinking about going back to a fruit and veggie diet, with some nuts/seeds. No protein powders or tofus and nothing processed. Since I compete in figure and bodybuilding I am a bit concerned. I would like some feedback from anyone that does this type of program and how it effects muscle building and structure.


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 Post subject: Re: Fruit and Veggie diet for Bodybuilding
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:19 am 
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Gorilla
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I'm curious too!

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 Post subject: Re: Fruit and Veggie diet for Bodybuilding
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:08 pm 
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Elephant
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You are referring to a 'whole food' diet? Essentially a raw diet? I think that many peoples' bodies wouldn't be happy with that low of a protein intake for bodybuilding, but I'm sure it's great for endurace races, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Fruit and Veggie diet for Bodybuilding
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:07 am 
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Rabbit

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:50 pm
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This diet is ideal for bodybuilding and even more ideal for those looking for ideal definition.

The fruit and veggies diet supplies all the protein we need and more.

As vegans, we should know better than anyone that protein deficiency is a myth. Has anyone come across anyone in their entire life that has been protein deficient?

Mother's milk provides just 6% of total calories coming from protein. This at a time when the human is growing at its faster rate. To claim that we need more than 6% of total calorie intake coming from protein is unproven hearsay.

We can look to other vegan creatures with similar anatomy (chimpanzees, apes, etc.) or even ones with differing (horses, cows) and recognize that we are more than covered with fruits and veggies for strength, agility, flexibility, longevity, and endurance.

"Protein" foods are not specifically required. Most "protein" foods, milk, meat, nuts, and seeds, are all higher in fat and should be looked at as so. They tend to lead to an over consumption of calories and thereby inducing weight gain. All fruits and veggies contain all 8 essential amino acids in a nutrient ratio that mostly closely matches the human's needs.

There are a select group of foods in their, whole, fresh, raw, ripe, organic, unaltered state. Those foods are fruits and vegetables and some nuts/seeds. Nature designed out natural diet to taste good without having to cook or season our food. No other animal in nature does this and they get to enjoy peak health and fitness for a lifetime.

(in nature nuts only fall from trees one month out of the year, in our natural setting, this is the only window in which we would consume these foods)

I wish you great luck in your fitness endeavors and recommend you check out the 80/10/10 Diet and/or Nutrition and Athletic Performance by Dr. Douglas Graham. The book lays out the whole lifestyle and the science behind it.

GO TO HEALTH!!! :lol:

Kevin


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 Post subject: Re: Fruit and Veggie diet for Bodybuilding
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:26 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:36 pm
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Unthinkable your fruit and veggie diet would be good with protein powders added. Why do you want to leave out the protein powder?

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 Post subject: Re: Fruit and Veggie diet for Bodybuilding
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:48 pm 
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Stegosaurus
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rawsomehealth wrote:
As vegans, we should know better than anyone that protein deficiency is a myth. Has anyone come across anyone in their entire life that has been protein deficient?


Big difference between being "protein deficient" and not having adequate protein intake to reach one's training goals. They're two totally different beasts.

rawsomehealth wrote:
"Protein" foods are not specifically required.


Maybe not for mere existence, but again, the goals of some people may require additional protein intake. There's yet to be anyone I've ever seen who gained any significantly impressive amount of muscle mass on a low protein diet, the most I've seen are some guys who maybe gained 5-10 lbs. of lean mass and lost some bodyfat to show better definition, but never anyone who had the size to viably compete in bodybuilding or the strength to compete in any form of strength athletics. Maybe someone out there has managed, but if they have, they're keeping well hidden from the rest of the world :wink: If you were to poll most of us here who have been aiming to get larger and stronger, you'd find that the bulk will all attest to better gains when taking in higher protein. I personally need moderate protein to see any significant gains in size or strength with my training (usually 150-180g/day), and higher than that (190-230g/day) if I want to lose fat without losing too much lean mass. Taking in high carbohydrates, even as raw fruits, only succeeds in destroying my goals for fat loss and is completely unsuitable for my body type (and likely that of quite a few others who tend to be carbohydrate-sensitive).

rawsomehealth wrote:
Most "protein" foods, milk, meat, nuts, and seeds, are all higher in fat and should be looked at as so. They tend to lead to an over consumption of calories and thereby inducing weight gain.


But, that fails to explain how some like myself gain fat on calorie-restricted diets high in carbohydrates (even fresh fruits being a primary source) and low in protein while I get the best fat loss with a lower carbohydrate / high fat high protein diet. I have taken the same caloric intake and done it with two different programs, one high carb and one low carb, and the low carb one is the only one that worked as the high carb "fat loss" approach only made me fatter by failing to reduce bodyfat, though it DID help me shed some muscle that I never intended to lose, the complete opposite of what I'd aimed for.

Not trying to get back into a big debate all over again, just saying that the proof of a low protein diet being remotely optimal for those whose goals are size/strength has never held water. For the average person who has little to no concern over anything but getting through their daily life without being involved in athletics, protein probably has little worry for anyone needing "extra". But, for strength athletes, low protein is the enemy of most. Trust me, I know plenty of guys who would LOVE to be able to save tons of $$$ by not stuffing themselves with tons protein to reach their goals, they just don't get much on their effort of hard training unless they keep the protein up. Hence my decision to always chime in when people decalre anything beyond minmal protein to be non-essential - maybe not for their goals, but for others, it may be something that's necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Fruit and Veggie diet for Bodybuilding
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:23 pm 
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Finch

Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:27 pm
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Well, after 4 years of 811 and lifting weights and meeting a lot of other frugivores... i have to agree with veganessentials. Never seeing some guy that grew huge on fruits and veggies. And my experience is that i only maintain muscle mass... didnt increased it. And i was constantly increasing in a cooked food high protein and fat diet.


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 Post subject: Re: Fruit and Veggie diet for Bodybuilding
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:10 am 
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This guy is a raw-vegan fitness model, but he supplements with (and is sponsored by) SunWarrior raw protein.

http://naturesfitnessmodel.com/

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 Post subject: Re: Fruit and Veggie diet for Bodybuilding
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:52 am 
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Rabbit
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The problem with Rawsome's seemingly logical argument is that humans do not survive better or live healthier lives in a natural environment with those restricted food sources. It's the same for nearly all animals... everything from humans to cats to scorpions.
Mother's breast milk does not provide a baby with even enough muscle to lift its own head.

Amino acids (what you're referring to as protein) are essential for far more than just building muscle. The main reason protein deficiencies don't exist is because protein isn't even the nutrient.. amino acid deficiencies, however, do exist. For anyone who is pushing their body to its limit, working hard and building muscle, it is very possibly that they may not get enough of a particular amino acid. Fruits and veggies are important and they do provide all essential amino acids but only in very small amounts.

We still have a lot to discover about dietetics, and you might be right. But until there is solid proof of your claims (rather than just an argument based on logic), you really shouldn't be giving people potentiall invalid information and thereby putting their health at risk.


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 Post subject: Re: Fruit and Veggie diet for Bodybuilding
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:42 pm 
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Manatee
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What rawsomehealth said. I've tired the fruitarian diet, my diet is currently almost fruitarian (with one meal in a day or two which is not fruitarian due to financial reasons). It has worked and still works for me. I was able to lift heavy and the recovery was stunning. There are enough essential amino acids in fruit and vegetables. You just won't find them all in one source. But you are not going to consume only one type of food, are you? You can get methionine from nuts (almonds, peanuts, etc), tryptophan from sunflower seeds, leucine from peanuts, etc.
Penpen, allow me to disagree that humans do not live better in natural conditions - they actually do. An example are the Shuar in South America as well as other tribes. I doubt we can find many humans who live in natural conditions nowadays. We've twisted nature badly and the tentacles of our militarized society reach far.
Positive effects of the fruitarian diet: Good recovery, immediate and lasting energy, feeling light and agile, always ready for physical effort (including wrestling) without delay (as opposed to 30 or 60 mins after you have eaten), feeling more awake, cleaner teeth (and no bad breath), increased sex drive (that's in the positives when you are with your GF).
Negative effects: You pee more often (very often), increased sex drive (that's in the negatives when your GF is in another city).
Bottomline: Try the fruitarian diet for a month if you can afford it, you'll feel reborn!
If you want better information you'll find it in Douglas Graham's book "The 80/10/10 diet".
Good luck :)

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 Post subject: Re: Fruit and Veggie diet for Bodybuilding
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:40 am 
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Rabbit
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The Shuar hunt animals. They still have a high protein diet. I got the impression that Rawsome was arguing against regular consumption of nuts and seeds.

I might give raw foodism a trial run (someday when I can afford it).. I'm still open minded about it, yet very doubtful... I imagine it might be difficult to avoid things like copper overload. Plus fruits and vegetables have a lot of glucose.


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 Post subject: Re: Fruit and Veggie diet for Bodybuilding
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:19 pm 
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Finch

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:31 pm
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this guy seems like he did pretty good without supplements
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TwXHsSE5Vg


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