Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

So I have been reading up on the 811 diet, which is where you consume 80% of your calories from carbs, 10% from protein, and 10% from fats. I was wondering if anyone that has participated in using this diet has managed to gain a considerable amount of lean mass. Currently I eat around 300 grams of protein a day, 350 carbs, and 90 grams of fat. Would I still be able to gain muscle while on an 811 diet. Also if I started doing 2 a days wouldn't my protein requirments rise?

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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated” - Mahatma Gandhi

1RM's
Squat: 385
Deadlift: 315
Bench: 245

I've never seen evidence of anyone gaining muscle on the diet and I would advise against it. Some people perform well on 811 if they eat 3000-5000 calories a day and do huge amounts of endurance athletics but at that point, you're lucky if you're getting 70 grams of low quality protein. Even the people who do the best on it like harley who runs 30bananasaday will admit that they have trouble keeping weight on even when consuming enormous amounts of fruit. Protein's necessary for muscle building. Period. Plant protein can work as well as animal, but a high fruit diet isn't going to work for building muscle.

Ok thanks a lot! I really wasn't sure about it, skeptical is a good word for that i guess. I was thinking the only way it could be possible is if you consumed tons and tons of food a day like 7000 or more calories. The reason I posted the question is because I saw an article on it, ill post the link, it seemed to have a decent amount good information: http://www.foodnsport.com/faq.php
It seems like a healthy diet for a non lifter, but def not for me lol

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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated” - Mahatma Gandhi

1RM's
Squat: 385
Deadlift: 315
Bench: 245

I think it is possible to build muscle on 811, and here is a thread on 30BAD with those that have: http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topi ... gladiators

Read this and it will answer all your questions about the diet. It's well researched and a solid book:

http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Raw-Essential-Guide-Vegan/dp/1570672385

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I was a lifter, with some nice results, after just one year in a "healthy" cooked food diet. I wasnt into junk, but i was a omnivore.

I have being doing 811 for 4 years and a half now. Its unbelivable in terms of health results. I wish i could go back and eat a high protein diet, because i enjoyed the looks and getting every month bigger and bigger muscles, but my body wont let me. I fell so good and am so much more productive eating this way. But unfortunaly, i disagree with doug, that affirms that less then 10% protein is enough.

For this 4 years and a half, i kept lifting at least 3 times a week, but no improvements. No losses, but no improvements as well. And i look smaller then ever, had my own face and body look that i had at 16, and i am now 27. I rejuvenated and look like a kid . Its good to know and even see that i will live a lot longer, but for sure, hehehe i digged the old look because girls dig a lot, a more muscular and "men" looking body.

It has its pros and cons. I am still trying to figure out ways to get bigger and still be raw and a frugivore... but if i had to drop my raw fruit and veggie diet for muscles, i have to say i would prefer to be a small thin guy as i am today.

Thanks guys. Well ive decided to go mostly raw, at least I have been completely raw for the past two days, tomorow is not a guarantee though lol. Im still getting maybe 150 grams of protein a day at best. Thats counting from all sources, nuts, some in fruit and greens, and a few servings of Sun Warrior Protein each day. Im feeling decent on this diet, not worse, but not noticeably better than a cooked food diet. As for now im not 811, Im still taking in a somewhat decent amount of protein, no where near the 300 grams a day I used to get though, and keeping up my calories is somewhat difficult, but Im really hoping to see some gains in the gym. If nothing else I have noticed a bit more muscular endurance in the gym.

_________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated” - Mahatma Gandhi

1RM's
Squat: 385
Deadlift: 315
Bench: 245

you should deffinitly check out the "811 Gladiators" thread on 30bananasaday.com
I'm a 21 year old female in body scultping training and doing almost 100% 811. Sometimes 90/5/5...
I'm gaining some muscle...triceps looking bigger, biceps good, i can flex legs now BUT I've been seeing some weight gain around my waist which is really putting me off....I did increase my calories from regular cooked vegan 2,000 to raw high fruit 2,500-3,000, and drinking almost 3 liters of water.
So...I dont know what's happening with my weight gain in my stomach. Some people say your weight will fluctuate at first on 811, but I think it's too many calories for my little self. I'm 5'2 and weight 115 with some lean muscle on me.
It could also be water weight?
Anyway, that's my progress so far on 811 lol. I am getting stronger lifting heavy weights 8-10 reps.
I'm still going strong on fruit...but the past week I've been adding SunWarrior protein some days. Just 1 serving.

Yeah, the 811 Diet is geared towards people who do endurance activities and (bodyweight) routines; as with bodyweight resistance you can only tear your muscles to a minute degree and you tend to burn the muscles out more, thus that person will only need a small percentage of their total calories to come in the form of proteins and fats for the minutely damaged tissue and they would need more carbs to prevent them from burning out.

On the other hand, someone who is lifting weights (more than bodyweight is tearing their muscles to an extreme degree, hence, they need to supply their bodies with larger quantities of proteins and fats and usually less carms unless if they incorporate cardio into their routine or train for a longer duration than say an hour per session.

Also, genetice is a huge factor in some cases (i.e. Ectomorph, Mesomorph, Endomorpph).



Great Avatar by the way!

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"Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated." -Arnold


My Training Journal:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=26321

However, Building muscle mass is still possible on a raw diet you just need to down large quantities of sprouted legumes and grains.

Also a Raw Vegan proetin powder like Sunwarrior (which doesn't taste half bad) would assist greatly!

_________________

"Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated." -Arnold


My Training Journal:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=26321

Hi guys, I am new to the vegan bodybuilding site but thought I should throw in my $.02. I have been vegetarian for 11 years, vegan for 9 years, raw for 3.5, and 811 for the better part of a year. I can easily gain muscle mass on a 811 diet. I just need to consume 3000-5000 calories of fruit a day depending on my weight goals and workout regime. Organic fruit can be cheap (if you go to farmers markets and or buy in bulk). The best part is that you feel incredible every day and very high endurance levels.

Mate no offence because you look great & are ripped etc, but you don't have much mass. What do you squat for example?

Thanks mate. But, keep in mind that I could have more mass if I wanted to. I don’t train for that. I do more cross training. Plus, I am just an average bloke with a very busy work schedule. I don’t get to the gym as much as I would like.

Also, I think it is un-natural and un-healthy to have a lot of mass. I am 6’1” and currently weigh 180lbs. I can comfortably go 10lbs in either direction. If I tried, I could be 230+ on a cooked vegan diet and be massive, but I wouldn’t be as healthy so I don’t see the point. Having a ridiculous squat max isn’t worth the increased risk of diabetes, cancer, heart disease, etc.

squats give you diabetes and cancer???

I think at a certain point a lot of guys want more mass just to look big and feed ego and its not about optimal health...veganfilmaker has got pretty good mass without overdoing it and looking like marshmellow man if you ask me. A lot of men are striving to have the mass he's got...

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Any mass that you have to work hard to gain and/or maintain is pretty well "unnatural" whether it's 10 lbs. of added mass or 40 lbs., so it's a negligable point to infer that having a bit of added lean mass is truly much different than having a fairly sizeable amount (so long as it's mass that has been added without chemical enhancement) Anything your body will gladly get rid of when you don't continually work to keep it is not truly "natural", which is why I think that discussing mass in quantitative terms where one is put in higher health regard than another is fairly meaningless.

Simply being stronger or having more lean mass doesn't necessarily mean one is on a road to sub-optimal health unless they're getting that way from taking things/eating things that are obviously detrimental. Lots of big guys out there (vegan, omni or otherwise) that have carried around loads of extra muscle, sometimes lean other times with excess fat, who are in exceptional physical shape and health regardless of carrying far more mass than the average non-lifter. Having a particular amount of extra lean mass or choosing to eat a cooked food diet automatically condemns one to a life of sub-optimal health and disease, so it's misleading to infer that either one is guaranteed to be detrimental to one's overall well-being. Just as how people who are 100% raw aren't guaranteed to be at 100% optimal health and disease-proof forever, it gets a little bit dangerous to make too many inferences that can't truly be backed up with solid factual evidence.

Not trying to attack anyone's particular beliefs to start a conflict, just trying to be reasonable and keep things based on facts rather than assumption.

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"A 'hardgainer' is merely someone who hasn't bothered to try enough different training methods to learn what is actually right for their own damned body." - anonymous