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 Post subject: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:33 pm
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After being on bodybuilding . com for a while, not getting to far with them (obvious reasons ;) ), I decided to come here for some help

I have been a lacto ovo vegetarian for about 2 months and man do i feel a lot better! Eating way more fruits and veggies and bettering my health

Stats: 16, 5'7", 128-130lbs
TDEE: 2200
About high 15 low 16% bf according to bb.com and pics

I hit my macros every day, and my diet ratio is near a 55/25/20 of c/f/p

I bench 150 3 reps, Squat 185 6 reps, curl 60 10-12reps to get an idea of my training

Been at it for 3 years but just started to get dedicated and serious to it

I wanna know if my TDEE looks fine and how i can increase muscle strength

Lift 3-5 days a week
Run 5 days a week, sprints at practice


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 Post subject: Re: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:57 pm 
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Gorilla
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:01 pm
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Location: England
Welcome to the board! I'm also a lacto ovo veggie & feel damn sight better for it. I tried a vegan diet but it destroyed my stomach (one reason why I stopped eating meat) though it's a vegan site the community here are welcoming & friendly to vegetarians.

As for strength simply you need to eat, eat & eat some
More. I detest macro counting with a passion, unless you're a bodybuilder looking to compete it is pointless. As long as the food you eat is whole, healthy & works for you have at it. I  ve spent countless houra reading into just about every diet going & it came to a point where they all just blend into one. I don't really care if I should eat a banana over an apple, if you eat well 90%-95% of the time, stretch well, lift hard & condition decently shit just falls into place! I'd sooner count sets/reps than if I should have an extra gram of rice.

Strength program's wise stuff like starting strength, strong lifts or 5/3/1 which I run. All the best 

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"Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your shit in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter" Jim Wendler


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 Post subject: Re: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:09 pm 
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veggiesasquatch wrote:
Welcome to the board! I'm also a lacto ovo veggie & feel damn sight better for it. I tried a vegan diet but it destroyed my stomach (one reason why I stopped eating meat) though it's a vegan site the community here are welcoming & friendly to vegetarians.

As for strength simply you need to eat, eat & eat some
More. I detest macro counting with a passion, unless you're a bodybuilder looking to compete it is pointless. As long as the food you eat is whole, healthy & works for you have at it. I  ve spent countless houra reading into just about every diet going & it came to a point where they all just blend into one. I don't really care if I should eat a banana over an apple, if you eat well 90%-95% of the time, stretch well, lift hard & condition decently shit just falls into place! I'd sooner count sets/reps than if I should have an extra gram of rice.

Strength program's wise stuff like starting strength, strong lifts or 5/3/1 which I run. All the best 


Sounds awesome man summed it up well. Im concerned with my caloric intake. The harris benedict says im 2310 or something around there. Averaged out that and another and came to 2200. But lately i seem to be more hungry and lifts are increasing. Maybe a growth spurt. Am i undereating for a male teen? I really just dont wanna get fat and wanna eat more! Im fairly active as said in the first post which makes me think i should eat way more


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 Post subject: Re: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:23 pm 
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Gorilla
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Listen to your body, not what a site/calorie counter tells you to eat. If you're hungry a lot then training is working, you're responding. If however you had little appetite it would be (more than likely) over training, once you over train  the body releases hormones which kill the appetite but you do sound like an extra meal on lifting days would help. I wouldn't not eat just because it's not time or whatever plan you are following. When I ohp, do 50 pull ups ect I eat like a horse after, same as when I deadlift. So I eat.  I usually have 4-5 meals a day, don't fall into the trap of the "6-8 meals a day" crew find what works for you. I gained a load of size just eating 4-5 times a day.

You can't eat like a mouse & expect to lift like a lion. Guys are for some reason afraid that one night of eating big will mean their skirts won't fit in the morning. I eat strong so I can be strong. If you're looking to get bigger/stronger & gain some weight you just have to accept that you'll gain a bit of fat. Granted you want as much as  possible to be muscle but you are eating more calories than you're burning so just remember that. I don't get what the big deal is with people's precious abs, I see mine as a means to keeping me stable to squat ect. If you are eating quality foods & the focus on training is to be as awesome as possible then it'll just fall into place.

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"Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your shit in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter" Jim Wendler


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 Post subject: Re: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:33 pm
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veggiesasquatch wrote:
Listen to your body, not what a site/calorie counter tells you to eat. If you're hungry a lot then training is working, you're responding. If however you had little appetite it would be (more than likely) over training, once you over train  the body releases hormones which kill the appetite but you do sound like an extra meal on lifting days would help. I wouldn't not eat just because it's not time or whatever plan you are following. When I ohp, do 50 pull ups ect I eat like a horse after, same as when I deadlift. So I eat.  I usually have 4-5 meals a day, don't fall into the trap of the "6-8 meals a day" crew find what works for you. I gained a load of size just eating 4-5 times a day.

You can't eat like a mouse & expect to lift like a lion. Guys are for some reason afraid that one night of eating big will mean their skirts won't fit in the morning. I eat strong so I can be strong. If you're looking to get bigger/stronger & gain some weight you just have to accept that you'll gain a bit of fat. Granted you want as much as  possible to be muscle but you are eating more calories than you're burning so just remember that. I don't get what the big deal is with people's precious abs, I see mine as a means to keeping me stable to squat ect. If you are eating quality foods & the focus on training is to be as awesome as possible then it'll just fall into place.


true, that may be some of the best advice yet. I am trying to stop counting calories but always go back..

Just listen to my body, eat when im hungry, dont eat when im not. Sounds excellent

One more question: how important is it for you to hit macros every day and to hit calories health wise?


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 Post subject: Re: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:33 pm
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Like i eat 5-10 servings of fruit and ~5-8 of vegetables everyday and not always half my bw of fat (you can tell bb.com has taught me to use macros lol IIFYM)


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 Post subject: Re: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:35 pm 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:20 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Dayton, OH
Hi Man,

Great to see you. I'm personally a raw Vegan and I follow the 80/10/10 diet. I get most of my carbs from fruit, but I also eat some cooked foods like rice and sweet potatoes and my minerals and such come from greens/vegetables. Yes, I think your calories seem a bit low to me. On a mostly fruit diet I get over 4000 everyday, but before I started doing the raw foods thing I used to get 2500-3000. I'm 180 ibs and just a tad leaner now than in my photo.
No matter what you are consuming I think the principal of 80/10/10 is a good one. And while I agree with VeggieSqatch about counting macros at this point you should probably be using something to count your calories and such just to make sure you get enough. If you are changing aspects of your diet you need to make sure you are getting plenty of cals, and getting them from good sources. I use http://cronometer.com/ It's free, and fairly easy to use.
As for lifts, what exactly are you doing now?

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Justin Morgan

http://www.youtube.com/user/RawVegaCaliBB


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 Post subject: Re: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:33 pm
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Justin Morgan wrote:
Hi Man,

Great to see you. I'm personally a raw Vegan and I follow the 80/10/10 diet. I get most of my carbs from fruit, but I also eat some cooked foods like rice and sweet potatoes and my minerals and such come from greens/vegetables. Yes, I think your calories seem a bit low to me. On a mostly fruit diet I get over 4000 everyday, but before I started doing the raw foods thing I used to get 2500-3000. I'm 180 ibs and just a tad leaner now than in my photo.
No matter what you are consuming I think the principal of 80/10/10 is a good one. And while I agree with VeggieSqatch about counting macros at this point you should probably be using something to count your calories and such just to make sure you get enough. If you are changing aspects of your diet you need to make sure you are getting plenty of cals, and getting them from good sources. I use http://cronometer.com/ It's free, and fairly easy to use.
As for lifts, what exactly are you doing now?


ah man thats awesome you're raw! I just finished ready Dr Doug Graham's 80/10/10 book today! Been looking into it all for a long time. Had my first mono meal breakfast yesterday of half a pound of dates! Man was I hyper after, and satisfied for around 5 hours! More than my usual cup of oatmeal

Would 3000 calories or 4000 of fruit and vegetables be equivalent to 2000-2500 of a lacto ovo diet consisting of a large variety of foods? Never got that. And does high carb only work in conjunction to low fat and protein or just low fat? I know the teo together cause glucose to be stopped in the bloodstream because of fats but if it is low fat then carbs wont turn to fat? educate me! Like if i eat a bunch of carbs now (usually 55/25/20 cfp) but had 65/25/10 would that lead to fat storage because fat and high carbs dont mix well? And is it expensive? I still live with my parents so I think im staying a lacto-ovo until i move out then try 811,
And heres my routine for lifting
Sun - rest
Mon- Legs/abs
Tue- rest
Wed - Bench/bi/abs
Thu- back/traps
Fri off
Sat Shoulders and tri/ab

Those are the usual combinations, days when performed vary ever week


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 Post subject: Re: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:48 pm 
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Gorilla
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Location: England
I don't count macros or calories. I'm just at a point now where I know what works. I didn't really ever count macros & it seems to be something the majority of people do on here where as people I know have no idea what that even means (fyi they all are big strong guys also bodybuilders).

When I lost a lot of weight I did become, for a time a calorie counter. I became obsessed but it's something I wouldn't ever do now. This week is a deload so I won't eat as many carbs but Sunday I'll eat a lot ready for a heavy session. 

This article is something you may find help full

http://www.jimwendler.com/page/2/

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"Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your shit in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter" Jim Wendler


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 Post subject: Re: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:53 pm 
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Gorilla
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Location: England
My sessions are based off a lift, not an area but it does break down as Mon:upper Tues:lower Wed:off Thurs:upper Fri:lower wkend off.

All I really do is get in at least 1.5g of protein per body pound, that's about it I just eat usually.

Have read the 80/10/10 diet a few times, I understand it & the reasoning but my brains still says "why" much as meat eaters do to us in general. I love that everyone has their own thing & I respect you following that diet, it's just not something is even contemplate doing.

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"Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your shit in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter" Jim Wendler


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 Post subject: Re: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:56 pm 
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it seems awesome cause you eat a shitload of fruit which i love to death! But im too skeptical such as on low protein intake, etc

And thanks for the help man, appreciate it


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 Post subject: Re: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:43 pm 
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Location: Dayton, OH
From a muscle building perspective protein is essential, nobody disputes that. But the question is how much protein do you need. Traditional bodybuilding circles tote the idea of 1-1 1/2 (g) of protein/ib of body weight. That's really general for a couple reasons. 1. I just started training an obese client two weeks ago. Am I supposed to tell them to eat enough protein for all the fat on their body? No, then they would end up even more fat. 2. What about all the other nutritional needs, do you just eat all the protein and hope for the best? I think that's why people end up over weight (fat) and frustrated. Traditional bodybuilders also advocate low carb diets. When your carbs are too low then your body needs to find something else to run on, so it turns to protein. The great thing about protein is that it can be converted to use for energy instead of just tissue repair. But in my mind, that's not an ideal scenario because you're body really wants the carbs, not the proteins. So give your body carbs for fuel, protein for tissue repair and fats for about 100 other things.
Dr. Graham mentions in the introduction to his book that the principals in the book apply regardless of your food choice. So if you're on a budget don't sweet it. I have a wife and three kids and I don't make a lot of money. So I get a lot of fruit and quite a bit of greens too. But to keep up my calories I also eat beans, rice and sweet potatoes. I make shakes in the morning with bananas and greens, bananas and dates for lunch, and then oranges, apples, and grapes for a few snacks here and there when I get a chance. Then I get my cooked foods in the early evening, and then I eat a big salad with nuts or avocados or something at night. I just eat all day. No specific meals, or number of meals, but I make sure to eat high calorie. All that I can really say is that I feel that it's working well for me. I like the foods so it's not a difficult thing. I prefer to eat the way that I do. I don't need a "why" other than that I like it and it's healthy and I'm not doing too bad on building muscle. I'm not great, but I'm happy with my results.

Do you do Dead lifts and squats?

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Justin Morgan

http://www.youtube.com/user/RawVegaCaliBB


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 Post subject: Re: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:37 pm 
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Gorilla
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I haven't ever known a bodybuilder who runs a low carb diet for very long unless it's that magical time of year for the all important "cut". It's pretty standard that carbs are fairly high when gaining weight over the seasons where people cover up. Then you have off shoots, carb cycling ect as I'm Not a bodybuilder I have no interest in all that jazz. I eat so I can perform. I wholeheartedly agree that you wouldn't tell an obese person new to training to take in at least 1g per body lb (obviously the goals to drop weight & raise general fitness)  but the  person who's training 3-5 days a week as a bodybuilder/strength training ect usually are clued up to the fact that we cannot store protein so a steady stream is need for muscle growth. But these people aren't obsess so it's a more general rule of thumb they'll follow protein in take wise & it would be touching a stupid amount of grams if over weight people did this (unless you're a strongman haha)

I wasn't asking for specifics as to why you follow the 80/10/10 diet, just that I absorbed the information on it & just couldn't see the benefit's from it, the "why" wasn't personal. Thats my view that's all, let's be fair neither of us shall be losing any sleep over one another's diets. That's awesome you enjoy it & more power to you for doing it man. I'd like to see how you've progressed on such a diet if you did a log & it's what keep me interested in seeing,talking about this stuff & people's methods.  If I wanted to know why I would politely ask as I'd have genuine interest. I'm forever asking questions, only way to learn.

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"Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your shit in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter" Jim Wendler


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 Post subject: Re: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:26 am 
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Yeah my squat is 185 for 6 reps
I also lunge with two 30lb 10 reps for 3 sets and do plyometric work on legs day

No deadlift unfortunately


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 Post subject: Re: Where to begin to start building muscle
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:09 pm 
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Gorilla
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Location: England
Build your workouts a round the 4 big lifts (barbell work) so Military pressing (no leg movement), Deadlifts, Bench press & squats. Then you add assistance to work compliment the big lifts & to also balance out the body & any weaker areas. People do a stupid amount of machine/isolation in gyms, Where as if they actually thought about what they did a bit more they'd get better results. More bang for for your buck & all that...

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"Don't fall for that crap that people are peddling on the message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your shit in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesn't matter" Jim Wendler


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