Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

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 Post subject: i quit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:38 am 
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Finch

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:18 pm
Posts: 5
I know this is a positive website and all but i also believe that people can't expect everything to always be perfect.
Anyway i love being vegan and will be vegan for the rest of my life but as far as body building goes i'm too frustrated to keep it up.
in eight months of veganism i've been getting weaker day by day and it's driven me crazy. 5years of training down the drain.
The last two weeks have been even more depressing and the heat has slowed me down even more so i've even stepped down my training...i'd rather spend time on other sports/hobbies then train badly...
so here i am my fisrt day away from the gym....feeling guilty.
Maybe sooner or later i'll start again from scratch....we'll see
Sorry for the negativity


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 Post subject: Re: i quit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:10 am 
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Elephant
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Location: New Jersey, USA
dont quit!! i will gladly take a look at your nutrition and training program and offer suggestions...i am sure a lot of others will too...post your food diary!!!

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 Post subject: Re: i quit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:48 pm 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:43 pm
Posts: 32
I agree I wouldn't just up and quit. At the very least it would be good to further explain your training history as well as your nutrition to explain just what exactly you feel is declining.

From personal experience I won't lie there was a point (a couple weeks) where I questioned if this vegan stuff was making me weaker. I began to feel more lethargic or more frail when training. Now given that my work rate began to get much higher as in I was rarely taken any days from moderate to hard training. Furthermore when I made the shift to a vegan diet I switched to a pretty close 80 10 10 style diet. So my protein was drastically less than before. I was still however just as strong (benching over 315 and deadifting over 400) and lost weight from 215 to 185. When I assessed my situation I really couldn't complain. I lost weight and maintained solid strength while at the same time eating healthier foods. Now I'm slowly incorporating more protein and training for strength once again and feel good.

It would greatly help others if you elaborated too.


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 Post subject: Re: i quit
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:09 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:29 pm
Posts: 117
Hi Jc,

Maybe you are over training and just need a week or two break for the muscles to recover


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 Post subject: Re: i quit
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:34 am 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:28 am
Posts: 17
don't give up <3 a nice option might be to simply take a break, focus on regular fitness for a little while and indeed post what youre eating, allow others to give you advice and tips and other help :) im not sure what causes you to feel weak, i have it too, but i have it because of insecurity and depression and stuff, not cus of my diet. if its your diet, maybe you can eat more fruit? that always helps me to feel more energized and stuff :)

there are a lot of people here who can probably give you awesome advice and help so dont be afraid to ask for it :)


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 Post subject: Re: i quit
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:11 am 
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Rabbit

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:18 pm
Posts: 10
I went vegan before I started training so I can't really say I experienced getting weaker as part of my diet. However, sometimes I feel like this too. Everyone has bad days, BUT, how do you KNOW you are getting weaker? Do you keep track of your lifts? Can you really see a direct and constant decrease in strength? or did you just have a bad day at the gym today? My guess is that it was probably the latter. And if you did see a decrease, can you really say it was from your vegan diet? Can you rule out all other possibilities? Has your routine/diet been consistent?

If it does come down to your diet, which is totally possible, I can tell you its not the fact that you are vegan causing it. Maybe you don't eat enough, or your macronutrient ratios are all messed up or something, but meat doesn't magically make you strong dude, being able to eat anything just makes things easier, but if you're looking for easier you did indeed pick the wrong hobby. Figure out the problem and fix it.


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 Post subject: Re: i quit
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:20 pm 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:20 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Dayton, OH
Did you do anything in the eight months that you've been losing all this muscle to fix the problem, or did you just keep doing the same thing hoping for different results? And how do you know you that you're losing muscle?

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 Post subject: Re: i quit
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:12 pm 
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Finch

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:18 pm
Posts: 5
first off THANKYOU for the suport.
Right now i believe ill follow lani's advice and take a break to concentrate on general fitness... o don't want this to become an obsetion although it sort of is (i guess you know what i mean)

my days change alot cause i work strange hours in my pub....this is what i ate today.

12pm pasta (tomato, pesto...whatever is vegan)
3pm gym
6pm work start with a soymilk and fruit shake (bananas, strawberry)
8pm 2veggie burgers (or seitan) with salad
12am bread peanut butter jam
5am (before bed) a soyicream
Plenty of crisps,vegan cakes, veggie sandwiches. cocacola and anything vegan that passes in fornt of me while i work.

Before it was all hamburgers, pasta and chocolate bars...it sucked but i was stronger. Fatter but stronger...without having to THINK before eating.


training:
Monday- chest, bicepts.
tuesday- back, tricepts
wednesday- mtb (depends on my mood)
thursday-shoulders, legs-
friday or saturday (depends on my job and my kids) should be traps, abbs (haha) and a few light excercise for the rest.
sometimes on sunday i go mtb again.
I no longer di rugby or kickboxing.

i'm not a verygood or strong bodybuilder. I go to the local gym and lift nowhere near what you guys do (nobody does here).
(sorry about using kilograms)i used to lift 130 and now i'm lucky to lift 100kg (bench)
i've gone from being 108km to 96 (quite stable now)
i tried three months of soy suppliment but it didn't help and also felt like cheating...or worse it made me feel obsessed.
Thanks for any advice


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 Post subject: Re: i quit
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:00 am 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:20 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Dayton, OH
Man, you have a few good things in your diet, and a lot of junk. If I ate like you do, I would be losing muscle too. Others may have a different viewpoint, but all that fake soy stuff just isn't good for you. I have nothing against soy per se, but I don't think it should be the foundation of your diet. You should stick to "real" food. There is no "general fitness" that you'll be able to achieve without putting the right fuel in the gas tank. Fruits, vegetables, potatoes, rice, beans, sweet potatoes, some nuts and seeds and then if you want to add those other soy products in on top of that in moderate doses you will do well. But if you keep trying to live on food that's been manipulated into another form it's just second hand nutrition, and you'll experience second hand health.

Aside from that, what you described doesn't sound like you're getting more than 2000 calories/day, if that. you didn't specify quantities, so it's hard to say, but try using this web-site for a couple days and see if you get a handle on what you're putting in.

http://cronometer.com/ It's free and easy to set up an account.

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Justin Morgan

http://www.youtube.com/user/RawVegaCaliBB


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 Post subject: Re: i quit
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:45 am 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:28 am
Posts: 17
Remember; this is supposed to be fun! you gotta enjoy the lifestyle of being a vegan athlete/bodybuilder/sportsperson/whatever :) it shouldnt be something youre forced to do! if you get me :3

I kinda agree with Justin, even tho I have soy burgers and other soy products but most of my diet is slowly becoming more and more veggies and fruit. the website Justin links seems to be pretty handy :D maybe you could make use of that :)

the best advice I can give on food is to try and get some more fresh food, try and skip on the cococola too, just drink some extra water instead :) I still sin a little by drinking lemonade a few times a day, maybe thats a option to switch with cocacola?

are you by any chance dutch? since you're using kilograms and such ^^

Hope you will feel better soon! Just wanna quote Justin on this one to end my post with;

Justin Morgan wrote:
You should stick to "real" food. There is no "general fitness" that you'll be able to achieve without putting the right fuel in the gas tank. Fruits, vegetables, potatoes, rice, beans, sweet potatoes, some nuts and seeds and then if you want to add those other soy products in on top of that in moderate doses you will do well. But if you keep trying to live on food that's been manipulated into another form it's just second hand nutrition, and you'll experience second hand health.


Because I totally agree on this. There are wonders you can do with tempeh by the way! think that's just plain stuff, not processed, nothing, it's also something that you have to use almost right away after you buy it because it goes bad quickly, to me that's usually a sign that it's something fresh and not manipulated =P .. but I'm not a expert obviously!

good luck! <3


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 Post subject: Re: i quit
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:43 am 
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Rabbit

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Scotland
Hi Jcatom

Please don't quit... in 4 weeks (i'm 51 yo female) I've been going from strength to strength...

I've been Vegan about 18 years, I spent years doing aerobic stuff but past couple years I've been losing muscle mass quite dramatically...it's probably my age/hormonal stuff that women get..hahaha...The reason I mention this is you are male and a lot younger than me, so you have every reason to be able to build muscle...:-)

...Anyway...I decided...the aerobic stuff ain't working, so I need a sport to build muscle..this b/b is all very new to me and hard to motivate myself to keep going BUT RESULTS are already showing...see TRAINING below if you're interested in a little detail :-)

Because of these results I am beginning to get a bit more motivated... and I'm not really doing a proper all over work out yet...

TRAINING (part of)
...my deadlift in 4 weeks has gone from 44lbs(20kg incl bar) to 110lbs (I've yet to work the reps up on the 110lbs/50kg with good form but hey it's on the up and I only weigh 110lbs/50kg)..I've got muscles on the upper part of my thighs appearing that I never knew were there...
...my forearms have grown slightly and my tri-ceps are beginning to develop in shape...my biceps and shoulders have always had good definition and shape but even they are noticeably bigger...bench pressing from 44lbs/20kg (incl bar) to 66lbs/30kg..this is slower progress than legs but hey it's on the up...

I just took that attitude...'if I keep doing what I was doing, nothing will change'...so I stopped doing what I was doing and now things are changing...
...I've just about kept motivated because of joining b/b websites...I feel determined that it is not only meat eaters that can build muscle but Vegans too...

...FYI I have NOT EATEN SOYA for over 2 months and I'm gaining muscle...(cut the soya out due to being diagnosed with borderline low Hypothyrodism, as it is know to interfere with thyroid function). Basically I've had to make other dietary adjustments too because of thyroid possibly worsening...it makes my brain go dizzy at times while I am trying to change my diet to build muscle too :lol:

...Hey if an 'old bird' can build muscles in 4 weeks.. so can you hahaha :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: i quit
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:46 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:29 pm
Posts: 117
Hey Greenprotein,

When you say soya products messed your thyroid up, does that include edamande


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 Post subject: Re: i quit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:03 am 
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Rabbit

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Scotland
Hi coimingtocyberspace

Sorry if I appear to nit-pick, do you mean edamame (edamame bean is a preparation of immature soybeans in the pod...quoted from Wiki) or is 'edamande' another form?

...All I can say is any form of soya is being cut out of my diet...it's one of those try it and see situations... dietary changes are the easiest things I can do at the moment......I have added: iodine and L-Tyrosine(tablet form) to my diet and also eating extra pumpkin seeds (zinc) and brazil nuts (selenium)...Tyrosine not listed as essential amino acid - it is to me at the moment :)

...If my thyroid sorts itself out and I find I miss soya I can always add it back in and get tested again after a while to see what the thyroid is doing but I would only add back in one thing at a time...However, I do find what Dr Mercola says about soya interesting...enough to put me off eating it ...hmmm...quite possibly.... :)

The following website has some interesting stuff on Thyroid: http://www.naturalthyroidchoices.com/Th ... ients.html

"Iodine- Critical building block. Iodine is organified to thyroglobulin to create thyroid hormones (T4 - 4 iodine molecules & T3 - 3 Iodine molecules).
Recommended amount: 6 - 50 mgs

L-Tyrosine - This is an amino acid that is used by the thyroid gland. It works with iodine to activate T3 and T4. L-tyrosine attaches itself to iodine atoms to form the active thyroid hormone. Supplementation with L-tyrosine can assist in better sleep and lowered stress. It also aids in the function of the adrenal and pituitary glands.
Recommended amount: 500 mgs "


...My next dietary move would be to cut out gluten, if what I am doing now does not work...because it could still be dietary based but maybe my body is just not absorbing nutrients properly...due to the lining of the stomach being 'flattened' and therefore not able to capture the nutrients floating about...

Sorry I've gone a BIT overkill on your question :lol: but I do find this all quite fascinating....and learning new things about nutrition is always fun...what better place in terms of sports but to find this out on a b/b forum :D

...One more thing on the thyroid, due to it being linked with other parts of an overall body functioning system I would also start to look at these areas too, with a more isolated approach to each area whereas at the moment I'm really trying hard to improve overall nutrient intake hoping it will sort the Thyroid out...

... if things don't improve then I would look at...e.g. pituitary gland...or the body's ability to convert T4 (Thyroxin, this is what my doctor offered me as in a drug form that I declined esp. as I am borderline low) to T3...hopefully my extra L-Tyrosine and Iodine will help with this just now...

...all of this does get quite involved but hey I prefer this route...as I'm a cynic about certain 'powers that be' :lol: .. I see them as out to make money outta' me by treating the sympton... as opposed to helping me find the cause... :D


Do you have something going on with your thyroid too?


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 Post subject: Re: i quit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:17 pm 
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Manatee
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:57 am
Posts: 377
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Here's the type of meals you should be eating if you are seriously into strength training or bodybuilding. ie. lots of nuts, whole grains, lentils beans veggies and some fruit and limit your process food intake.

As a vegan imo you do need to pay more attention to your food and nutrient intake and you may need to do some preplanning for your meals to make sure you don't fall back on old bad habits. I don't think you can be as lazy as in past - you don't need to be obsessed, just definitely not lazy. But this is a good thing; As soon as you start putting in the effort, you will see major benefits - you will get healthier and healthier.

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 Post subject: Re: i quit
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:31 pm 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:20 pm
Posts: 176
Location: Dayton, OH
stcalico wrote:
Here's the type of meals you should be eating if you are seriously into strength training or bodybuilding. ie. lots of nuts, whole grains, lentils beans veggies and some fruit.



That's kind of the opposite of what I do. Fruits are where I get my calories, veggies minerals, and I eat some nuts/seeds. But I agree that's not a bad diet. Making nuts the foundation of your diet though doesn't seem logical to me, but I have seen people do well on a variety of different kinds of diets. Regardless it's a big improvement from relying on soy burgers and vegan junk foods though.

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http://www.youtube.com/user/RawVegaCaliBB


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