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#1 Postby david.b » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:38 pm

hey guys i wanted to ask about your fitness programs ,i'm having trouble balancing my own . as it comes to protien is soy the principle thing that you use? and what do you eat before and after a workout if you want to build muscle mass ?
i'm also a bit concerned about taking too much soy because i heard it contains astrogan , so i prefere to get my proties somewhere else if it's possible ?

anyway thanks in advance

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Justin Morgan
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Re: nutrition

#2 Postby Justin Morgan » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:39 pm

Protein is only one nutrient that plays a role in muscle building. If you only focus on protein and forget fats, carbs, vitamins and minerals (and you preferably get them from food) then your gains in muscle are also going to suffer equally as if you didn't get enough protein. Non soy protein foods = greens (in quantity, I juice), beans, Quinoa, grains, nuts, seeds, oats.

Fats, carbs and protein all play pivotal roles in muscle building. You need enough fat to promote hormone function, so no less than 10% of your diet, and you probably wouldn't need more than 20%. Carbs supply your muscles with glycogen which allows them to perform movements, and they prevent your body from trying to use protein for energy (they are protein sparing). I get between 70 and 80% of my calories from carbs, but most people would probably recommend between 60 and 65% (American College of Sports Medicine recommends 65%) . Protein is useful in tissue repair, so after you break down the muscle fibers, the protein aids in rebuilding it. Testing on strength athletes by the academy of nutrition and dietetics showed that no more than 1.2-1.8 grams/Kg of body weight was beneficial (that's assuming you are relatively lean, you don't need to eat protein to support your fat). Make sure you consume enough calories.

Astrogan? I think you mean estrogen, and yes it does contain very weak estrogens. Many other foods do too. Here is a list I copied and pasted. I wouldn't make soy out to be a super healthy food, but I can't find unbiased clinical research that really condemns it either. The research I have found that has bad things to say about it I'm very skeptical of because of the way that the tests were run (only one patient in the test which in not general clinical testing procedures), or their outcomes. An old study done at Ohio study claimed that soy lowered testosterone, but when you actually opened and read the study 19 patients showed no change in their T levels, and one patient showed a dramatic decrease in his T levels. This wasn't such a bad thing though because at the beginning of the study his T levels were double the norm. So you can make your own decision.

Alfalfa, Animal flesh, Anise seed, Apples Baker's yeast Barley Beets Carrots Cherries Chickpeas (garbanzo beans) Clover Cowpeas (black- eyed peas) Cucumbers Dairy Foods*** Dates Eggs Eggplant Fennel Flaxseeds Garlic Hops Licorice Oats Olive oil Olives Papaya Parsley Peas Peppers Plums Pomegranates Potatoes Pumpkin Red beans Red clover Rhubarb Rice (relatively highin glutamate) Sage Sesame seeds Soybean sprouts Soybeans*** Sunflower seeds Tomatoes Wheat Yams

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Re: nutrition

#3 Postby david.b » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:47 pm

ok thanks for the reply and sorry for any spelling mistakes like "astrogan" i'm from israel so usually i make some.
but even though it's not certain that it does anything harmfull i still would rather avoid it if i can because of things i'v heard and some videos i saw about it. is there anything that is as good when it comes to plant proteins?

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Re: nutrition

#4 Postby stcalico » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:04 pm

Soy has phytoestrogens (plant-estrogen), which does not have the same effect as actual estrogen found in dairy.

Anyway, plant based diets have a protective effect against excess estrogen due to fiber content of the diet. Because of fiber, excess estrogen is easily flushed out via the digestive tract.

Much of the 'scare' info on soy that is out there is coming from Weston Price or other 'meat' funded scientists and is then perpetuated by the 'meat heads'. So make sure you have a clue about your sources and their agendas before you believe anything you read or hear. And also make sure results are based on human studies.. not rats or mice - generally the rats and mice studies are just cruel and tell us nothing about humans in the end.

You will find most legitamate studies indicate that soy is fine in moderation... so don't feel you need to avoid it completely.

You should aim for variety in your protein sources to ensure you are getting all amino acids. Beans and legumes (black beans, chickpeas, white beans, kidney beans, peas, lentils, nuts) are good sources of plant protein. Grains (oats, wheat, barley, rice) and seeds (sesame, sunflower, quinoa, amaranth, hemp, chia, flax) are also good sources of plant protein. This chickpea cutlet recipe from Post Punk kitchen incorporates chickpeas and wheat gluten and is fairly high in protein. If you decide to try it, make the cutlets really thin.. or they will turn out gluey. The cutlets freeze well.

Most vegetables have a gram or two of protein, and some like potatoes & squash have 4 or 5 grams in a serving.

Fruits generally have negligible amounts of protein (except avocados), but you should still include them in your diet for all the other nutrients they have.

There are also non-soy protein powders available... rice protein, pea protein, hemp protein if you want to go a less whole food route.
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