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 Post subject: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:30 pm 
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Rabbit
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Location: Arizona
How come I never hear or read anything about decline bench presses? Currently on Chest Day I do...

Flat Bench Press - Bar
Decline Bench Press - Bar
Incline Bench Press - Dumb Bells
Flat Flies
Push Ups (Wide Hands)
Pull Overs - Dumb Bells (Only if I have any strength left at this time)

Am I wasting time and energy with the decline Bench? Also, should I be doing incline flies instead of flat flies?


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 Post subject: Re: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:55 am 
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Elephant
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i think decline can be useful, but i think people go on far too much of an angle sometimes.......all my benching is done very slightly decline as little as my head 2-3 inches lower than my ass, this little bit of decline feels alot nicer on my shoulders than normal flat press. just give things a go and see how they work for you......just do it slowly and build up the poundage gradually incase you get injured doing something your body isnt used to . :D

what are your goals with the training program?

_________________
"iam the strongest one! iam the viking!" - jon pall sigmarsson
“may all of your dreams and ambitions happen, but most important, may all of your enemies die"
www.infowars.com


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 Post subject: Re: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:58 am 
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Manatee

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
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Hi AZvegan

The decline press is actually a great deal more productive for the pec's than is flat pressing.. it engages the entire pec, not just the lower pec, and as Mike pointed out, its a great deal easier on the pec/shoulder tendons.
At the beginning of this video, 6x Mr Olympia Dorian Yates explains why the decline bench press is the most effective pec exercise
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y86TYYpaMoA

As a natural trainee, i personally would recommend you preform no more than 2-3 movements per bodypart. In fact the chest workout that Dorian provides in the above video is ideal.


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 Post subject: Re: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:10 pm 
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Location: Arizona
Thanks for the info guys. mrbear666, my goals are to put on some muscle, but more important is to trim the last of my fat. I'm not looking to be a body builder, that ship as sailed many years ago. I lost 50 lbs a few years back but then came to a stall. I think if I can shed another 10 or so and add a little muscle I'll have a decent cut and I could figure out what's next from there.

HIT Rob, so am I doing too many body part movements in my workout? I only work one body part a day and do about six exercises per body part. I could always cut that in half and do two body parts a day which will allow me to hit each muscle group twice a week.


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 Post subject: Re: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:31 pm 
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Manatee

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AZvegan wrote:
Thanks for the info guys. mrbear666, my goals are to put on some muscle, but more important is to trim the last of my fat. I'm not looking to be a body builder, that ship as sailed many years ago. I lost 50 lbs a few years back but then came to a stall. I think if I can shed another 10 or so and add a little muscle I'll have a decent cut and I could figure out what's next from there.

HIT Rob, so am I doing too many body part movements in my workout? I only work one body part a day and do about six exercises per body part. I could always cut that in half and do two body parts a day which will allow me to hit each muscle group twice a week.


Hey AZ vegan...
I understand the logic of training a bodypart per day, but there is an inherent problem with training this way, and that is it only allows for localized muscle recovery, what it doesn't allow for, is systemic recovery. Its not just the targeted / localized skeletal muscles that are effected by intense training, its the entire physical system that's effected, and if you don't not allow enough time to elapse for systemic recovery to take place, then your really training in a counterproductive way.

Keep in mind, hypertrophy is a tri-phase process, employ the stimulus (intense training), then allow for systemic recovery (compensation), and then finally allow for growth (overcompensation) to take place. Train before the last two phases take place, and you short circuit the entire process.

For the natural trainee, training briefly and intensely (no more than half hour bouts) 2-3x per week will produce best results. Leave the one bodypart per day training method to the steroid / growth hormone infused genetic freaks in the muscle mags:)

Hope this helps
Rob


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 Post subject: Re: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:51 pm 
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Thanks Rob, makes a ton of sense. I'll have to cut it back and give it a try.


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 Post subject: Re: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:50 am 
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Elephant
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i agree with Rob, very hard brief training and a good clean diet really does wonders for the physique :D let us know how you get on mate!

_________________
"iam the strongest one! iam the viking!" - jon pall sigmarsson
“may all of your dreams and ambitions happen, but most important, may all of your enemies die"
www.infowars.com


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 Post subject: Re: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:01 pm 
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Rob, I just read you blog from last May when where you listed your training log explaining the brief bouts of high intensity training. It sounds like not enough lifting but I'm sure it is and I have to wrap my head around it and give it a try. I am going on vacation in a couple of weeks but when I come back I am going to go straight into this training method and I will let you know how it goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:41 pm 
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Manatee

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 472
AZvegan wrote:
Rob, I just read you blog from last May when where you listed your training log explaining the brief bouts of high intensity training. It sounds like not enough lifting but I'm sure it is and I have to wrap my head around it and give it a try. I am going on vacation in a couple of weeks but when I come back I am going to go straight into this training method and I will let you know how it goes.


Hey AZvegan

Indeed, on paper Hitters workouts don't sound like much, but HIT is a very different species of exericse, HIT makes a much deeper / greater inroad into the body. Its my belief that this level of intense physical is an absolute requirement, the stress must be of a high order/magnitude in order to warrant an adaptive response from the body, we know this from evolutionary biology.

By the same token, you cant tolerate or expose yourself to this level of intense physical stress for long, overexposure to intense physical stress is toxic and counterproductive, this is essentially why the HIT workouts are kept brief and are low in volume, and since the inroad is deeper, the compensation/recovery times are also longer. Moreover, as you grow progressively stronger, the stresses on the body also grow greater, so were you may be able to get away with training 2-3 times per week at first with HIT, you may well find you require even less exposure over time.

This last few weeks I've been training 2-3x per week with a little more volume, however this is only because i haven't been training to all out failure, i guess you could call it "active rest", this was to ensure my lower order fibers did not de-compensate, while at the same time my CNS got a brief rest. Tomorrow am back to my balls till the walls workouts:)

If you want to know more about HIT or would like some links, just give me a shout
Best and have a great holiday
Rob


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 Post subject: Re: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:55 pm 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:45 am
Posts: 15
Location: Arizona
Hi Rob, thanks for all of the help. Could you give me an example of a weeks work out for you? Below is what I was thinking, but is it too much?

Saturday - Chest, Shoulders and Triceps
Flat (or incline) Bench Press
Flat (or incline) Flies
Standing Lateral Raise
Military Press
French Curls (also call sculled crushers in the US)
Dips

Monday - Back and Biceps
Bend over row (Reverse Grip - I feel them in my lats best)
Pull Ups
Preacher Curls
Hammer Curls

Wednesday - Legs and Abs
Leg Curls
Leg Lifts
Calf Lifts
Squats (and/or lunges)
Knee Lifts
Crunches

I don't go to a gym, I work out at home so I don't have access to machines.

I also can't wait to try the cluster 1 1/4 rep methods that you talk about, I'm just not sure which exercise should get which one.

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 472
Hey Bill,

Its my Pleasure:)

If using a 3 way split (push, pull, legs being my favorite, i go with something like this

W/O A
Incline Press
Side Lateral Raise
Dips
*The Pec's, frontal delt's and triceps receive sufficient stimulation from the IP and Dips, and the lateral head of the delt is stimulated with the LR. Adding an overhead press or triceps extensions is not necessary, and may well be counterproductive.

W/O B
Underhand Chin
Row
Curl or DL
* The underhand chin puts the biceps into their strongest position, making them less of a weak link. Moreover the Underhand Chin strongly engages the pecs and abs, its really an upper body squat.

W/O C
Leg Press
Calf Press
Leg Curl
* I personally don't Squat or Deadlift due to lower back issues (and because of the fact i don't have the ideal structure for free weight squatting), If you can sqaut, swap the LP for Squats, or a Squat variation, just be very careful though, if training alone at home i wouldn't recommend going to all out failure on them.
* If your performing movements such as Squats, BB Rows, Dips, Underhand Chins, your abs will have received sufficient stimulation.

This is an abbreviated version of Mike Mentzer heavy duty book 1 routine, low volume, but still addressing all the major muscle groups, I've used it myself for a number of years with good success (as have everyone I've trained), and still return to it every so often. When using the above routine i'm in and out of the gym in less than 12-15 minutes, however the duration of the workout is not important, what is important, is that the intensity of effort is were it needed to be.

Yes mate, 1 1/4 reps, as well as J-Reps are good "low stress" high intensity techniques (as they force you to use a lighter load), they produce more contractions per unit of time, without having to add more and more volume. The cluster sets are one of my favorite Brain Johnston techniques, its an advanced "high stress" high intensity technique which allows for deeper inroading, essentially its just a modified rest pause method, use sparingly:)

Hope this helps
Rob


Last edited by HIT Rob on Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:51 pm 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:45 am
Posts: 15
Location: Arizona
Yes Rob, it does help and I am going to start using this next week. I agree 100% with you that the duration of the work out isn't important, it's what you do during the workout. My only other question is what do you do for warm up with a program like this?


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 Post subject: Re: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:44 am 
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Manatee

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 472
Warming up is really an individual thing, for myself, i tend to preform 2 nice slow and controlled moderately heavy low rep sets on the first movement of each of the workouts, on the second and third movements, one warm-up set tends to be sufficient. What i wouldn't recommend as a warm-up, is preforming super light, high rep sets, i see people doing this in the gym all the time, they warm-up with a weight that is way to light and they just bounce up and down 20 or so times, all this does is increase the risk of an injury. I also don't recommend stretching before a workout , its the contraction the draws blood into a muscle, thus producing a warm-up effect. Moreover, there's ample research that shows stretching for just a few minutes before a strength training session can actually negatively effect strength levels by as much as 20%.

If you have injuries, i find putting a little drop of tiger balm on the injured area before the workout helps, or eve just a hot water bottle, i do this with my lower back and left knee before workouts. Helps a little:)


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 Post subject: Re: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:06 am 
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Rabbit
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1 final question and then I will leave you alone. I believe you do high sets with reps to failure with this method. (i.e. 105kgs x 8 reps to failure; which I take as 8 sets each set you do reps to failure). What is the rest period between the sets and do you leave the weight the same for all 8 sets? OK, 1 question with 2 parts. lol


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 Post subject: Re: Decline Bench Press
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:07 am 
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Manatee

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 472
Hey Bill

Lol, no worries mate...

When training to failure and beyond, i perform as mentioned, one or two low rep warm-up sets per movement, i then perform just one single working set to failure per movement. One single set to failure is more than sufficient for stimulate growth Bill. Trust me:)


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