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 Post subject: Taking a Time-Out
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:42 am 
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Rabbit

Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:12 am
Posts: 128
I recently gained about 10 pounds in two weeks, along with some pretty nice strength gains. While I have no idea how i gained that much, that fast (without increasing body fat) I also got some tendonitis above the knee. I have never had tendonitis here, and I used to squat even more than i do now. The big difference is that I now go ass to grass when i used to just go to parallel years ago.

Either way, I can't help but wonder if I should take a week off or something. I have been going pretty hard for two months now. Usually i do shoulders and back on day one, legs on day two, arms and chest on day three and repeat. i take the seventh day off.

Idk if I am on th brink of overtraining or not, because my energy is the same. I wonder if this is actually the time to push through for maximal gains. What do y'all think?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking a Time-Out
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:30 pm 
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Gorilla

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 510
Are you still making strength increases on every workout, or has progress slowed down? Strength increases will grind to a halt or slow right down when your over training.

If the answer is yes, i would recommend taking a layoff and then on your return to the gym, train slightly more infrequently, you'll find that you'll start making progress again in leaps and bounds. On the other hand, if you are still making good progress training as your are, then carry on.
Your knee problem could very well be because your using an exaggerated range of motion on your squat, also keep in mind, a "greater" or full range of motion not only increases the risk of injury due to moving resistance through positions of disadvanged leverage, but it also reduce's the amount of resistance your are capable of maximally contracting against.

Hope this helps
Rob


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 Post subject: Re: Taking a Time-Out
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:41 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:12 am
Posts: 128
Awesome, I guess I am good to go then. I am still making strength increases each time. The soreness seems to be going away, finally. I think I will give my legs one more day of rest by switching it up and doing arms/chest tomorrow.

As for the atg squats, I heard going below parallel is actually safer because the most unstable part of the motion is when your thighs are parallel to the ground, and the strain on the knee is greatest at the bottom of the movement. Is that wrong? I do feel stonger regardless, and my flexibility has increased dramatically since I started doing atg squats, so I am a bit hesitant to cut them out of my workout.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking a Time-Out
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:32 am 
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Gorilla

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 510
Happy days:) Your training journal is always your best guide....

I'll not say don't use a full range of motion, but i well say just be careful and do keep in mind, due to the sheer forces that impinge on the joints and connective tissues when bones and ligaments are required to move through arcs and positions of disadvantaged leverage (btw that is not made up, its a well established physiological fact), the risk on injury increases, and if a bad injury does happen, its for life. I now use a safer range of motion and static holds, as years of high impact training and using "full range" exercise has left me with some serious injuries that effect every part of my life.

I was accused not that long ago by one severally concrete arrested individual of coming here and giving unsolicited advice to vegans, which is not true, my purpose of posting here is in the hope that others can learn from the mistakes i made following "traditional" training advice's from people whom have no clue what their talking about.

Best
Rob


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 Post subject: Re: Taking a Time-Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:31 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:12 am
Posts: 128
Thanks Rob! I'm a constant skeptic about what I should and should not be doing, so this is great advice. I have never had a serious injury in my life, so my health is certainly at the top of my priority list. Do you think using a lower weight will help me stay away from injury or would you suggest cutting them out all together? My atg squats have me squatting far less than I normally would already. For instance, If I were to go just to parallel and back up, I would probably use around a pyramid routine going up to 375lbs at this point, but I am only using 260lbs with ATGs.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking a Time-Out
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:37 pm 
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Gorilla

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 510
That's cool, its good to question things:)

I would recommend you watch this video of Bill De Simone who is an expert in bio-mechanics, as well as a HIT expert with 40+ years experience. If you go 21 minutes into the video, he talks about what happens to your spine, discs and knees when you squat low, its not good mate. If you watch the whole seminar he explains why the traditional back squat is all wrong for us based on the bio-mechanics. Really good watch. (yes, this is blasphemy to the free weight traditionalists, but tradition has nothing to do with science).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e34h3VIjEj4


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 Post subject: Re: Taking a Time-Out
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:30 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:12 am
Posts: 128
Blasphemy and such!! lol just kidding, but honestly, IDK if I believe this guy.

Severe back injuries like herniated disks are typically due to using too much weight combined with not maintaining perfect form. So for most people in general, it is only a matter of time before they screw themselves up.

If you think about it, any weight you pick up will load on the spine; not just squat. If you're holding dumbbells you are loading the shoulders, which in turn loads the spine in the same spot as squats. Form is necessary no matter what you do. Scapula contracted, back arched, head neutral. Happy squatting!


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 Post subject: Re: Taking a Time-Out
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:33 pm 
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Gorilla

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 510
LOL...

I think BDS does a great job at logically explaining and articulating why the traditional back squat is not a good idea based on the bio-mechanics. He seem's not so much worried about the movement itself (freehand), he's talking more about were the load is placed. He does however go on to recommend Hip Belt Squats as a safer alternative (and leverage style leg press machine).

Personally my back problems started with back squats in the 90s, as with anything, technique is certainly a big factor, as is force, but another factor is not having the correct bodytype for such a complex movement, at just over 6'4" and having a long spine and legs, back squatting was always very difficult for me, I've also encountered quite a few experienced individuals who've have had the same problem, at the other end, I've encounter quite a few experienced individuals who had perfect bodytypes for squatting and they did well with them. That being said, many of them were even complaining of back issues. Point is, the traditional BB squat its not a one size fits all movement, for many, its most certainly not the "king of exercises" the pie in the sky gym rats would have you believe.

These days i much prefer using leverage style seated leg presses (not the sled style incline leg presses, them things are death traps), even with 3 herniated disc's and a knee injury, leverage style LP's cause no / to very little irritation, while still producing a deep level of fatigue in my lower body.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking a Time-Out
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:20 am 
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Rabbit

Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:12 am
Posts: 128
You are absolutely right, there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all approach to training, especially with the legs. I suppose I am genetically inclined to do well with traditional squats. However, leg presses are still safer, and with a grain of salt, I have incorporated them into my weekly routine. They hit the legs in a different way, so this is a good idea regardless. I am becoming less and less traditional as the days go by!

P.S. I checked out that whole series of audio tapes with Mike Mentzer, and it is a pretty cool concept. Negative reps with pauses at high weight with no rest. I tried it today and oh my goodness... VERY HIGH INTENSITY!! I feel very drained and I worked out for less than 4 minutes!


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 Post subject: Re: Taking a Time-Out
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:28 pm 
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Gorilla

Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm
Posts: 510
Well, the basic fundamentals principles of productive exercise are universal, but indeed, it must be tailored to the individual, based on their experience, age, weight, condition, bodytype, injuries and most importantly, their stress tolerance to intense physical stress and recovery ability.

Oh his, Mikes audio tape set are awesome, he done those in 95 i think, i still put mine on every now and then for some inspiration. I also love reading and listening to John Littles (Mikes best friend, experienced HIT Trainer, owner of Nautilus North HIT facility Canada, researcher, Author and founder of the Max Contraction Training system, the Max Pyramid Protocol and co author of Body By Science).

These interviews are two of the most polished and informative I've ever heard...
http://www.highintensitynation.com/2011 ... hn-little/
http://www.lifeintherough.com/2008/07/3 ... interview/


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 Post subject: Re: Taking a Time-Out
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:30 pm 
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Stegosaurus
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 3072
Location: Waukesha, WI
My first post in ages, and of course, it's because I can relate :)

I dislocated a rib back in October, and just as I was about fully recovered 2 weeks later, I became so busy with holiday prep at work that I decided to take my longest lifting break ever - 10 full weeks of zero training. Even when I was practically crippled from my back injury in years past, I still did some training with never more than a week off. Here's what happened this time around -

Physique-wise, I decided to let myself eat junk food and far too many convenience meals (not a good idea) and I ended up putting on 10 lbs. over that short of a period. Mass-wise, I still looked the same, but there was some definitely regaining of fat on my midsection and lower back, and almost 3 months back into training, I'm just about where I was pre-break. That part wasn't too bad, easy enough to fix. As I've found from personal experience as well as from those I know who have taken significant breaks, the longer your body has been holding added muscle mass the easier it seems to be to retain even if you don't train for a good stretch. But, that leads to....

Strength-wise, it has been the hardest. My max strength on everything dropped by about 10-20%, but not only that, my conditioning went to hell and so did my ability to rep out the same weights that I could do high volume sets with. Where I did a pretty easy 3 sets of 10 @ 405 lbs. for deadlifting back in the fall pre-injury, I almost died trying to do 405 for 1 rep on my return. Everything that was easy was much harder coming back, so while I was able to undo the physique damage in about the same time as I took off from training, the strength part is going to be a longer road back and might take me until summer to get there.

So, in retrospect, shorter breaks tend to do the body good as 1-2 weeks off won't kill you and won't destroy progress unless you're on a tight program schedule for competing in something, but once you go beyond that 1-month mark, be ready for the fact that it's going to take you a while to regain what you lost along the way.

_________________
"A 'hardgainer' is merely someone who hasn't bothered to try enough different training methods to learn what is actually right for their own damned body." - anonymous


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 Post subject: Re: Taking a Time-Out
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:17 am 
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Rabbit

Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:12 am
Posts: 128
I've been applying rest days much more liberally with my new program and I think it is working for me better than I could have imagined. I got 5x5 with 205 on bench press, which is a 20 pound improvement from 3 weeks ago. I also gained an inch on my arms within the last two weeks!


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