How does this routine look?

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S_Tales
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:56 pm

How does this routine look?

#1 Postby S_Tales » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:10 pm

Hey all,

Been working out seriously for about 6 months now, and have been vegan for about 2!

I got burnt out on what I was previously doing in the gym, so I decided to switch things up a bit. I am primarily going for overall fitness and strength, but definitely do want to add some mass. I'm hoping you can take a look at my routine and give me some good constructive criticism on what is good about it, and what you think I should change. I do a 3 day rotation twice a week, as I've marked below.

Here's what I've been doing for about the last month:

Legs (Monday/Thursday)
• Leg press
• Lunges
• Jump-ups (basically jumping onto a raised platform as fast as I can)
• Quad extensions
• Hamstring curls

Chest and arms (Tuesday/Friday)
• Barbell Bench Press
• Incline Dumbell chest press
• Dips
• Cable cross-overs (low, mid, high)
• Bicep curls
• Tri-cep pulldowns

Back and shoulders (Wednesday/Saturday)
• Deadlifts
• Pull-ups
• Barbell/dumbbell Overhead press
• Barbell/dumbbell row
• Barbell pullover
• Deltoid flies (front, side, rear)
• Shrugs

I generally do 8-12 reps at ~60% 1RM, for 3-4 sets. Every fourth workout or so I do more in the 4-6 rep range for 80-90% 1RM. I know I should be doing squats, but I had been doing them 3x a week, and it was starting to kill my lower back. I know this was from poor form, so I am trying to get my back healthy and relearn proper squat form before adding them back in. Leg press is a poor substitute. I do a solid ab workout every other day.

I would be grateful for any constructive criticism. Thanks.

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C.O.
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Re: How does this routine look?

#2 Postby C.O. » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:57 pm

Looks like you are definitely putting in work. Where did you pick up these routines from?

S_Tales
Finch
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: How does this routine look?

#3 Postby S_Tales » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:14 pm

Eh, kinda pieced it together myself based on what I've learned over the past couple of years. I'm mostly concerned about my back day, not really feeling like I am making much progress, other than on deadlift. I am pretty slow to increase weight or reps on the barbell row and pull-ups especially.

HIT Rob
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Re: How does this routine look?

#4 Postby HIT Rob » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:07 pm

Hi S Tales,

I would not recommend the above routine to anyone (even if that person was taking steroids and recovery enhancers). Such a program does not allow for systemic recovery to take place, let alone for localized muscle recovery.

Increasing muscular size and strength is a tri-phase process, you MUST first employ a proper stimulus (high intensity training), you then MUST allow enough time for the body to compensate/recover from the workout (and not just for localized recovery, but for full systemic recovery), and then you MUST allow enough time to elapse for the third phase to take place, ie over-compensation / growth. Repeat exposure to the stimulus before the second and or third phases have had a chance to happen and you simply short circuit the whole process.

I would strongly recommend you reduce your volume and frequency of your training to no more than 2-3 intense abbreviated workouts per week. For the pull-up and BB Row, i would recommend you use wrist straps, this should take some of the focus of pulling with your arms and your grip somewhat, and allow you to focus more on contracting your back muscles.

Hope this helps
Best
Rob

S_Tales
Finch
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:56 pm

Re: How does this routine look?

#5 Postby S_Tales » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:07 pm

I've never heard of this systemic recovery idea. Do you have any recommended readings to learn more about it? 2-3 workouts just doesn't sound like enough to me, plus I really enjoy getting intense exercise every day.

I do think that what I am doing allows for localized muscle recovery, as no two days in a row work the same muscles. Yes, there is a small amount of overlap between chest/arms and back/shoulders, but not so much that it should interfere significantly. I've been doing this for about 2.5 months now, and am not feeling over-trained and have gained a few pounds of muscle. Still, I would be curious to read more about your training ideas.

HIT Rob
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Re: How does this routine look?

#6 Postby HIT Rob » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:44 pm

S_Tales wrote:I've never heard of this systemic recovery idea. Do you have any recommended readings to learn more about it? 2-3 workouts just doesn't sound like enough to me, plus I really enjoy getting intense exercise every day.

I do think that what I am doing allows for localized muscle recovery, as no two days in a row work the same muscles. Yes, there is a small amount of overlap between chest/arms and back/shoulders, but not so much that it should interfere significantly. I've been doing this for about 2.5 months now, and am not feeling over-trained and have gained a few pounds of muscle. Still, I would be curious to read more about your training ideas.


If you take just your frontal delts alone, they are stimulated/effected by the first 5 exercises in your chest and arms workout, and then the very next day your hitting them again with overhead presses and front lateral raises...and this takes place twice a week. My question to you is...does a natural trainee really need or require that amount of volume and frequency for such a small chunk of muscle?
That kind of volume and frequency is the kind used by pro bodybuilders whom are born with superior a recovery ability, on top of that they take vast quantities of steroids and growth hormones which also aid recovery.

Trust me, when you've experienced a true HIT workout you'll know that 2-3 intense abbreviated workouts are more than enough for the natural trainee...there'll be no doubt in your mind about that:)

I first learned about systemic recovery when i spoke with former Mr Universe and HIT pioneer Mike Mentzer in my late teens, i too believed that if i train certain bodyparts on certain days i could get away with using more volume and frequency, i was wrong! Mike taught me that intense exercise has a systemic effect on the ENTIRE physical system, not just the targeted area. So even when using a split routine, one must still allow a sufficient amount of time to elapse for systemic recovery to take place. This is not my idea, Mikes idea, nor anyone's....NATURE that dictates the rules here. Intense exercise is not a hobby, its intense physical stress, and the human body doesn't have a infinite capacity for dealing with it.

Mike talks about systemic stress and recovery here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWs9R2AsYvc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1IcqZLMaH4

linda0012
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Re: How does this routine look?

#7 Postby linda0012 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:30 am

S_Tales wrote:Hey all,

Been working out seriously for about 6 months now, and have been vegan for about 2!

I got burnt out on what I was previously doing in the gym, so I decided to switch things up a bit. I am primarily going for overall fitness and strength, but definitely do want to add some mass. I'm hoping you can take a look at my routine and give me some good constructive criticism on what is good about it, and what you think I should change. I do a 3 day rotation twice a week, as I've marked below.

Here's what I've been doing for about the last month:

Legs (Monday/Thursday)
• Leg press
• Lunges
• Jump-ups (basically jumping onto a raised platform as fast as I can)
• Quad extensions
• Hamstring curls

Chest and arms (Tuesday/Friday)
• Barbell Bench Press
• Incline Dumbell chest press
• Dips
• Cable cross-overs (low, mid, high)
• Bicep curls
• Tri-cep pulldowns

Back and shoulders (Wednesday/Saturday)
• Deadlifts
• Pull-ups
• Barbell/dumbbell Overhead press
• Barbell/dumbbell row
• Barbell pullover
• Deltoid flies (front, side, rear)
• Shrugs

I generally do 8-12 reps at ~60% 1RM, for 3-4 sets. Every fourth workout or so I do more in the 4-6 rep range for 80-90% 1RM. I know I should be doing squats, but I had been doing them 3x a week, and it was starting to kill my lower back. I know this was from poor form, so I am trying to get my back healthy and relearn proper squat form before adding them back in. Leg press is a poor substitute. I do a solid ab workout every other day.

I would be grateful for any constructive criticism. Thanks.


It looks more than enough to get the results.

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Eiji
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Re: How does this routine look?

#8 Postby Eiji » Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:50 pm

HIT = BS
Make no excuses to skip a training session. Feel stressed, sad, sick or tired? Go train. Your friends, your heart, mind and body will lie to you. Telling you that you need that recovery day. Go ahead, stay home. I'll be training that day and getting better no matter what.

HIT Rob
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Re: How does this routine look?

#9 Postby HIT Rob » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:10 pm

Opinions vary...ignorant and all!

Fact is, ANYONE looking to increase their muscular size and strength must expose themselves to intense physical stress, moreòver, physiologists found in the early 1900s that INTENSITY (not volume) was the single must important factor for increasing muscular size and strength. But each to their own, some adhere to the laws of nature, while others
try to ice state uphill.

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Eiji
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Re: How does this routine look?

#10 Postby Eiji » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:31 pm

Lol. Simply not true. You can blow hard all you want but the research actually points in the other direction. Volume and frequency being the factors in training that stimulate growth the most.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23249767/
Make no excuses to skip a training session. Feel stressed, sad, sick or tired? Go train. Your friends, your heart, mind and body will lie to you. Telling you that you need that recovery day. Go ahead, stay home. I'll be training that day and getting better no matter what.

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Eiji
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Re: How does this routine look?

#11 Postby Eiji » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:05 am

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/nonfunctionalmyth.html
Make no excuses to skip a training session. Feel stressed, sad, sick or tired? Go train. Your friends, your heart, mind and body will lie to you. Telling you that you need that recovery day. Go ahead, stay home. I'll be training that day and getting better no matter what.

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Eiji
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Re: How does this routine look?

#12 Postby Eiji » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:08 am

http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/more-volume-more-strength
Make no excuses to skip a training session. Feel stressed, sad, sick or tired? Go train. Your friends, your heart, mind and body will lie to you. Telling you that you need that recovery day. Go ahead, stay home. I'll be training that day and getting better no matter what.

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Eiji
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Re: How does this routine look?

#13 Postby Eiji » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:10 am

HIT enthusiasts can be successful in spite of their training, not because of it. And they will have the CV fitness of a couch potato.

Although I do think your program is overloaded with fluff

Leg day = squats and or deadlifts, calf raises

Chest - bench, incline, dips

Back- pull-ups/chins, db rows

Shoulders- overhead press
Make no excuses to skip a training session. Feel stressed, sad, sick or tired? Go train. Your friends, your heart, mind and body will lie to you. Telling you that you need that recovery day. Go ahead, stay home. I'll be training that day and getting better no matter what.

HIT Rob
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Posts: 886
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 5:03 pm

Re: How does this routine look?

#14 Postby HIT Rob » Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:21 am

Eiji,

We can cherry pick research all day long to support what were saying, i will say this, HIT isn't for everyone (though neither is high volume training) - it is a fact that everyone must expose themselves to progressively higher intense physical stress to warrant a continual adaptive response, however there is a genetically medicated limit as to how much exposure can be tolerated, just as there are individuals that can tolerate a lot of exposure to high intensity sunlight stress, there are those that can tolerate very little.

With regards to CV, it is a physiological fact, that the only way you can get at the myocardium, is by preforming mechanical work with muscle, and to the degree, that the greater the intensity of work done with muscle...the greater the "cardio" benefits.

With regards to what you think about my training, i don't really care, ive been training for 25 years and have had highly experienced trainers train me, i did the volume stuff for years Eiji, but it wasn't until i reduced the volume and increased my intensity of my training did i begin to see much better results.

I have encountered many people like yourself Eiji over the last few decades, i was even once even physical threatened in a gym for believing what i believe, but i guess that's what i get for challenging decades of tradition based conventional wisdom, it has not detered me in anyway shape or form, as Mike Mentzer once said to me "Am not on this earth to win a popularity contest". I will continue to shout what i believe and what i know works from the rooftops.

Have a great weekend
Rob
Last edited by HIT Rob on Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Eiji
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Re: How does this routine look?

#15 Postby Eiji » Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:30 am

Yeah, I am opinionated for sure. It's great that HIT works for you. And yes we both can pick studies that support our opinions. I do believe that more research points toward higher volume and frequency to being a more effective approach. That is why the vast majority of athletes and coaches use it.
I dont really care how you train but when you state that HIT is superior to other methods that may be true for you but not for the vast majority of everyone else. See where I'm coming from?

I think that HIT is easier to be successful with than high volume high frequency because it's less taxing on the whole system. Your nutrition and sleep habits don't have to be as dialed to get results. HVHF places more stress on the system as a whole and if your recovery side (nutrition,rest,sleep,massage,mobility drills, etc.) is not on point the gains do not come. Once you dial in those variables HVHF surpasses
Make no excuses to skip a training session. Feel stressed, sad, sick or tired? Go train. Your friends, your heart, mind and body will lie to you. Telling you that you need that recovery day. Go ahead, stay home. I'll be training that day and getting better no matter what.


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