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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on training
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:06 am 
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Manatee
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Daywalker wrote:


6. Load and reps


What exactly is an increase in strength?
When you have the same weight on the bar than last workout, and do more reps with it, that's an increase.


Hi Daywalker,

great info. Thanks. I am wondering what the above means. After only 1 1/2 months I am still an absolute beginner and I doubt that I can increase my weight or reps every next workout. I went from 30kg benchpress to 55kg within 6 weeks. But I do not feel progress every next workout. So, what is improvement? In my case it can take one week to get from 30 to 35kg and than maybe two weeks to get to 40kg. Now I am stuck at 55kg since two weeks. 60kg is nearly impossible at the moment. I try to do exercises as intensive as possible (8-10 reps, but at least 6 reps). Does it make sense to increase your weight every workout even if it is only for 1 or two reps? Or did it just reached a point where I have to use this maximum weight for a couple of weeks untill I can go one step further?

Nobbi


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on training
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:10 pm 
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Hi friends,

thank you all for the feedback! That really means a lot to me :D

I'll comment on nutrition and such another time, as on the other mentioned points, when i find the time...

@Nobbi:
That's a very good process!
Of course you can't improve EVERY workout. You should still try, though. When you can't increase the weight, try to max. the reps. When you can do a fair number os reps with a certain load, increase it. The key is to balance your regeneration and training that you can do so as often as possible.
When you reach a plateau, there are several ways to counter. In your situation, as a beginner, you could try to change your routine, for example the exercises, the number of exercises or sets per muscle group, or the order of your exercises. You have made progress for 6 weeks, it's time to change things up. If you want to keep your routine, stay with the weight until your comfortable to increase it and try to increase the reps until then.
If you want more detailed advice, please post your training plan.

@kadett8:
Try doggcrapp, it's a good program and a very instructive experience. Have fun :)

See you later,
Daywalker :)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:31 pm 
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Hi friends.

How were your workouts the last week?

I’m now finished with my HST cycle and testing my new strength this week, after that, i’ll design a new plan for me.

But for today, i’ll share a few thoughts on the following with you:


Bulking and Cutting

Everyone who does BB wants to either build up mass or lose bodyfat, or both, preferably. There are many opinions around how to do it best.
Obviously, the exact plan depends on the individuals starting point. It makes a difference if you’re an advanced bodybuilder who wants to lose the last 10 lbs of fat before a competition, or if you’re a beginner who’s first goal is a loss of 60 lbs.


- The diet

In my opinion, bulking and cutting in BB are NOT that far apart as many seem to think. The principles for bulking i’ve stated before. Of course, both, bulking and cutting, require to adjust your diet also, not only the workout.
For both goals, some general things apply.
- Don’t eat too much in one meal. Eating too much will prevent fast digestion, slow the metabolism and make you feel bloated and fat ;) The nutritients can be absorbed better if you only eat a small portion.
- Drink water. Everything else is not a drink, but food (except tea). Drink enough that your urine is clear, not dark.
- Fresh fruits and veggies!
- Whole grains are better than white ones.
- Eat as much organic as you can afford. It’s not only better for your body, as it contains less chemicals, it also supports more environmental friendly ways of agriculturing.
- Enjoy every meal.
- Listen to your body! Never eat “when you must”, or don’t eat when you’re hungry.
- Try to eat as few as possible of the following: processed, industrial, pre-made food, especially those containing: artificial flavour, artificial sweetener, artificial color, preservatives, hydrogenated fat, modified starch, flavour enhancer (sodium glutamat), and so on.

Bulking diet:
I do NOT believe that you can only build muscle when you’re on a high calorie diet, i mean, taking in more calories than you need. Of course this will lead to weight gains, but who wants to gain fat?
I know that you can build muscle without taking in so much calories. The keys are proper amount of protein, rest and an intelligent workout. If your program is specifically desigend for it, you can even burn fat and at the same time build muscle. There are limitations to this, though. An intense program like that shouldn’t be followed over a long time.
Beginners usually do automatically lose fat AND gain muscle. That is possible for advanced athletes also, it’s only more difficult.
So my advice if your primary goal is to gain muscle is to eat enough protein but don’t exaggerate with the calories and watch your bodyfat. It will be hard to lose again and by doing so, you’ll probably lose some of the hard earned muscles, too!
When you’re the skinny, hard-gainer type, eat whatever you find and try to make it protein-rich foods. Don’t worry about getting fat, the intense workout will prevent that.
If you’re on the other hand someone who easily gains weight, don’t worry about having to eat much in order to gain muscle. The key to muscle growth is the workout! Watch the simple carbs, though.

When i say “proper amount of protein” i do NOT mean the often recommended 1 gram per pound of bodyweight. I think that much is not necessary, not for natural athletes. For vegans it’d be especially hard to get that much anyway.
I think around 1 g per kilogram of bodyweight is a good aim for most of us. If you aim a little higher, it won’t hurt. I don’t recommend to count and calculate too much on a daily basis. Better estimate your numbers (protein, fat, calories). While bulking, you shouldn’t restrict yourself too much. Eat healthy food, and listen to what your body says, it knows how much is enough!

Another point is that you don’t need to - rather: should not – eat the same amount of protein and calories every day! It’s perfectly okay if one day you only manage to get 80g of protein and the next two you’re around 130! The body adjusts not only to work out, it also adjusts to calorie and protein intake. An excessive protein intake over a long time can actually weaken your performance. Give your body a break now and then from forced protein/calory intake!

Cutting diet:
Again, it strongly depends on the individual.
What is different here from the bulking diet, which we (as bodybuilders) eat most of the time?
Mainly, the amount of calories ;) Surprise! :D

When you start a cutting cycle, decrease the calories slowly. First, cut out all the crap you usually eat sometimes, which is okay when you’re bulking, but now you’re not, remember that!
Cut out all sugar, except fruits, first. No sweets, no cakes, no cookies. After a while, cut the white flour stuff, too: pasta and bread.
If you want to, or have to, lose quite a large amount of fat, slowly decrease your calories by decreasing the amount of carbs and fat you eat. That really depends on your normal diet – i only decrease the carbs, for i always eat low fat. Do not decrease the protein! It’s not so easy to keep the protein high and get the fat low, though.
Eat lots of veggies, replace the carb-loaded foods by them. Salads and veggies replace pasta, potatoes and rice. Don’t go too low with the carbs, though, they’re still your fuel.

Later in the day, reduce the carbs. Eat your carbs early, and don’’t eat them in the evening or at night. That’s the time for salads and protein.

I recommend doing a “refeed day” once per week. That means, one day per week you are allowed to eat anything that, and as much as you want.
This day will prevent your metabolism switching to hibernation mode.

When cutting, the same golden rule as for bulking applies: BE PATIENT!
When you cut down your calories etc, too fast, you’ll lose too much muscle in the process. Not a good exchange in the long run.

Another point that comes to my mind: don’t use “light” products! They are usually unhealthy, processed, artificial, industrial “food”, designed to copy a special taste without delivering the calories. Therefore, they contain lots of artificial substances, such as sweeteners. Beside that these substances are unnatural and unhealthy, artificial sweeteners actually can make you GAIN weight! They work as appetizers, not a good thing on your diet!

Don’t weigh yourself every day and get excited about the outcome. Once or twice a week is better, always on the same day and time, under the same circumstances (in the morning, before breakfast, after toilet, naked). If you’re mentally strong enough ;) to deal with the fluctuations, you can weigh yourself everyday and make a cross in a system of coordinates. Then, every three days take the average and make a cross in a different color. Draw a line between crosses of the same color. It’s a way to make your way visible.


- Cutting program

In order to lose fat and at the same time maintain your muscles, you have to lift heavy. That means, do NOT go for high reps in order to burn more calories, but stick with the heavy weights.
In general, i wouldn’t recommend that you try to increase the weights during your cutting cycle. Take a heavy weight and try to increase the number of reps instead (say, starting with 5 reps). If you’re making good process (which i doubt, when you’re on a calroy-rectricted diet ;) ), it’s okay to increase the weight, though (when you reach 12 reps).

In general, the same principles as for bulking cycles apply, with the following differences:

- Work out more often. Heavy weights with a reasonable volume every day burn lots of calories and at the same time increase your metabolism. Moreover, it will prevent losing your muscles.

- Obviously you can’t simply work out more often without changing anything else. Go for a slightly lower intensity and a slightly higher volume.

- Add some cardio. Cardio training is a great way to burn some calories more. I recommend to do that in the morning, just after getting up. Kick your ass out of the bed an hour early and burn some before breakfast. Important is that you don’t do the weights and the cardio in one session! Never! If you don’t have enough time for both, then choose one.

That’s all.
Yes, it IS that simple. It’s still the same exercises. ;)
Forget the high rep bla bla – muscle growth is induced by heavy weights, and that is especially important on a cutting diet!!


I hope i haven’t forgotten anything.
Let me know what you think about the above infos. Do find them useful?
If you have any question, whether general or specific or on your individual program, DON’T BOTHER ME WITH IT!
:P
No, i’m just kidding – of course, PLEASE ask! :D


Have a great day,
Love and peace,
Daywalker
:)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:00 pm 
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Hi Daywalker,

thanks for taking your time to explain that detailed.

Daywalker wrote:
Important is that you don’t do the weights and the cardio in one session! Never!


Can you explain that one please? Why not?

I try to get rid of fat. I always do cardio with a heart rate monitor. This shouldn't effect my muscle grow to much. I have just changed my workout program and increased the intensity of the weight training and at the same time try to do cardio every morning for 60 minutes. Also I did increase my kcal from 2300 to 3000 a day. I am 176cm (5' 9") and 71kg (157lbs). What do you think of 60min cardio in the morning and maybe 30min after the workout for let's say 6 weeks?

Nobbi


Last edited by nobbi on Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:08 pm 
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Hey dude, thanks for more information, that's cool :)

Daywalker wrote:
- Listen to your body! Never eat “when you must”, or don’t eat when you’re hungry.


Do you mean that you shouldn't let yourself get really hungry? You should eat enough to feel full, and not over eat, and also not allow yourself to feel empty?

Daywalker wrote:
- Try to eat as few as possible of the following: processed, industrial, pre-made food, especially those containing: artificial flavour, artificial sweetener, artificial color, preservatives, hydrogenated fat, modified starch, flavour enhancer (sodium glutamat), and so on.


What are the consequences of eating those things? I hear often that they're very bad for health, but I'd like to know the specifics.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:31 pm 
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Quote:
When i say “proper amount of protein” i do NOT mean the often recommended 1 gram per pound of bodyweight. I think that much is not necessary, not for natural athletes. For vegans it’d be especially hard to get that much anyway.
I think around 1 g per kilogram of bodyweight is a good aim for most of us. If you aim a little higher, it won’t hurt. I don’t recommend to count and calculate too much on a daily basis. Better estimate your numbers (protein, fat, calories). While bulking, you shouldn’t restrict yourself too much. Eat healthy food, and listen to what your body says, it knows how much is enough!

Another point is that you don’t need to - rather: should not – eat the same amount of protein and calories every day! It’s perfectly okay if one day you only manage to get 80g of protein and the next two you’re around 130! The body adjusts not only to work out, it also adjusts to calorie and protein intake. An excessive protein intake over a long time can actually weaken your performance. Give your body a break now and then from forced protein/calory intake!



Im starting to find this out. I was totally stressing my body and digestive system by eating wayy to many calories and protein ALL the time. I am taking a break from eating so much and noticing I am growing. its really neat.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:22 am 
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Elephant
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Hi friends!

Thank you for the feedback! :D

Nobbi:
I believe that when you do cardio before work out, you'll be weaker on the weights and therefore can't maximize the effect on strength and muscle gains. If you do it afterwards, you delay your post work out nutrition, you burn too much muscle and you prolong the workout time in total. So it's best to do both seperate. As you do it, 60min in the morning, is perfect, i think you don't need the extra 30min after the weights. Cardio gets really effective after ~25min anyway ;)


Richard wrote:
Do you mean that you shouldn't let yourself get really hungry? You should eat enough to feel full, and not over eat, and also not allow yourself to feel empty?

Yeah, kind of. Feeling hunger isn't that bad, though. Depending if you want to gain or lose weight, hunger is your friend ;) Try seeing hunger not as your enemy, it's a pleasant feeling, especially when you know that you'll be able to eat something soon :)
It's okay to be hungry when you eat (before you eat...). I go hungry to the gym always! Your body should crave your food, that way it makes the best use of it. Better to be hungry now and then, than to overeat and stuff yourself when you're not hungry.

Quote:
What are the consequences of eating those things? I hear often that they're very bad for health, but I'd like to know the specifics.

Hm, that's a science in itself, but i'll give you some short info on it.
-Processed, industrial, pre-made food: In general contain less nutritives and very low phytochemicals, the good stuff in plants. Moreover, according to the bioelectrical theory, they contain very low energy. And of course, they contain the said chemicals.
-Artificial flavour: Keep in mind WHY it's in there. Artificial flavour is designed to make something taste good that you normally wouldn't eat! You practically would eat shit with enogh artificial flavours in it! They're in a product to make these junk eatable, to deceive you!
-Artificial sweetener: Some say they're harmless, some say they induce cancer - i don't know, but i know that i'd rather go for sugar than for more chemicals in my food. AS function as appetizers and i've read of a man who lost 25kg of bodyfat by changing nothing in his nutrition except stopping to eat light products!! AS are used in animal cramming :(
-artificial color: similar to flavourings, they're in to make the product look appetizing. You don't need that in healthy food. We're constantly exposed to thousands of chemicals and no one knows the exact effects of all of them (combined or seperate), i think it's better to put as few as possible into your body.
-preservatives: same thing.
-hydrogenated fat: is known to induce cancer.
-modified starch: another food design device to create a certain "mouth feeling" :?
- flavour enhancer (sodium glutamat): it's a neurotoxin!

It's not detailed, but i think you get the idea :)


Topher. i'm glad you're feeling better and making good gains!! :)

Love and peace,
Daywalker 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:51 am 
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Daywalker wrote:

If you do it afterwards, you delay your post work out nutrition...


What do you think is a good post work out nutrition? In my case 60min cardio in the morning and 1 1/2 hrs work out in the evening. 3000 kcal at the moment. What, when and how much?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:26 am 
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hey daywalker,

only just found out this tread and it took me a while to read it! Thanks for all the detailed information. I'm still relatevely new to lifting weight and I sometimes fell there's still too much I don't know.
I've trained and eaten hard for the past 3 months, I've noticed some improvements but I'm not entirely satisfied. I find that I'm still struggling to lift heavier weights especially on some exercises (e.g. bicep curls). I always try lifting with good form, I could probably lift more but I don't want to loose form over it.
I may need to be more patient, but it can be frustraiting. Anyways, I will soon start a new programme and see how it goes.
Thanks again for all your useful tips!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:47 am 
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Nice thread.

Ty for taking the time to punch all this out :)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:28 pm 
Daywalker, what are your thoughts on warming up before an exercise?

I find if I do a warm-up set I have less than maximum left for the exercise set, but if I don't do a warm-up set I am more likely to hurt myself. Seems like a catch-22, so I go with the warm-up set because I don't want an injury. Lately I've been doing passive warm-up if Tiger Balm, but I was wondering what you have found to work best.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:38 pm 
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Aaron, Christian, thanks for the feedback :)

Nobbi,
don't make things so complicate. You're a control freak, let go ;)
Just work out consistently and eat healthy. Write a log and analyze you're progress, experiment.


Daniel,
A good warm-up is extremely important. Not only for preventing injuries, also for maximum performance.
I go for a general warm up (some cardio for 5-20minutes, usually 10, depending on temperature and my mood) and then specific warm up.

I need a lot of warm up sets, the more sets the higher my weights are going to be. Don't wear yourself out on the warm up, though. It depends on what weights you're using.


Example:

I want to do 2 sets for 5 reps with 100kg. Then i'd go (after cycling for 10min) for 20kg (=the empty bar) x40reps, 40kgx20, 60kgx15, 80kgx8. These sets are not exhausting, but prepare me for the heavy weight. I go after how i feel, sometimes i go up 20, 50, 80kg, sometimes i do 2 sets with 60. Between the warm-up sets i stretch the worked area carefully.

If i could bench 200kg, i'd probably go something like 20kgx40, 60kgx20, 100kgx12, 140kgx8, 180kgx3, 200kg x5, 5 (just dreaming here ;) )

If you're bench max on the other hand is 40kg, you don't need 4 warm up sets. Do one with the empty bar, then 2 working sets and it's fine.

I do more warm-up sets for the first exercise for every bodypart than for following, but i do always at least one.

A warm-up set should never be so heavy that it impairs your work sets. Do many reps with very light weight, and only a few with medium weight.
I don't know how fit you are, but maybe not fit enough, when the warm-up exhausts you? However, don't skip warm-up! It's an important part of your workout and if it's exhausting, it will only contribute to your fitness! :)

Tiger Balm and similar stuff cannot replace a proper warm-up, it can only add to it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:01 pm 
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences with us Daywalker! :wink: 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:16 am 
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Hey Daywalker, I have just started my training, I am pretty feeble, starting of with 5lb weights and 13lb bar for the power clean, I was going to wait until Wednesday to do my next work out.
I do whole body but it only takes me about 45 minutes.
Do you think I should work out every day?.
I have a book called "good girls do dumbells" and I am taking the two day workout and making it a one day.
What do you think?
Thanks
Karen


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:31 am 
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Hey big boy, you're welcome :D
I hope you found some useful ideas here :)

Hi Brit.
brit wrote:
Do you think I should work out every day?.

No, for this reason:

brit wrote:
I have just started my training,

;)
Get used to the weights and the movements first. 3 times per week consistently is well enough!
You will see improvement anyway, and your joints/tendons don't adapt as fast as your muscles. Everyday workout is for advanced tainees.

brit wrote:
I am pretty feeble, starting of with 5lb weights and 13lb bar for the power clean, I was going to wait until Wednesday to do my next work out. I do whole body but it only takes me about 45 minutes.

45 minutes is okay. Do you do a warm-up set for each exercise?
How often you work out depends on the intensity and the volume (number of sets and total workout time) of each workout. Even if it feels it's not enough, stay with 45 minutes for a few weeks and see if you improve your strength. If yes, everything is good :) If not, change something ;)


brit wrote:
I have a book called "good girls do dumbells" and I am taking the two day workout and making it a one day.
What do you think?

?
I don't know the book and the workouts. But if you can do both as a whole body workout in 45 minutes, i guess it's okay :)

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