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 Post subject: He's NEVER eaten Meat
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 9:45 pm 
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Most of you have seen my friend Ben featured on the front page of the main website.

For those who haven't, here is a photo of Big Ben. He is 36 and has never eaten meat in his life. He is one of the biggest guys at a bodybuilder's gym where I train.

Image

Check out Ben's articles on www.veganbodybuilding.com main page or go directly to them here:

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/article/515

and

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/article/658

Ben is an awesome guy, extremely nice and has been bodybuilding for 16 years so he knows a thing or two about building muscle.

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 9:53 pm 
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This guy is HUGE . THat is really cool that he has never put meat in his mouth, he is not responsible for killing any animals. Thanks for the links to the article Rob.


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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 11:16 pm 
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he is seriously huuuuuge. wow.


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 11:13 am 
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kollision wrote:
This guy is HUGE . THat is really cool that he has never put meat in his mouth, he is not responsible for killing any animals. Thanks for the links to the article Rob.


Even though it's great to see someone like him representing vegetarian athletes, it's not THAT impressive for people who know much about nutrition.

The difference that matters is not whether you eat meat or not, but whether you eat animal-proteins or not. I think you get what I mean... :wink:

Referring to the quote above: once again, I greatly appreciate it he's a vegetarian, but that doesn't mean he's not responsible for killing any animals. Just think of leather-products and stuff like this.

Also, people in general should be more aware of what lies behind "just" eating eggs or drinking milk: mostly it's an animal's "life" full of suffer and torture.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 11:31 am 
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I know what you mean...........I put him on here to show people that it is possible to get really big without eating meat. Ben can wear size extra large shirts and the sleeves are still tight.

Ben, himself will say that it is not that impressive, because vegans and vegetarians are just as capable as anyone else to put on muscle. It's just that you don't see it is often so I wanted to bring some attention to it.

As far as the difference between vegans and vegetarians, I know what you mean. I know all about it and I agree with you. Avoiding meat for 36 years is still a positive step and has made an impact so I commend him for that. Most kids growing up vegetarian would probably stray away for a while, but he stuck with it and then started training and became a veggie monster.

But I hear what you're saying and being vegan makes a huge impact, so the bigger we can all get, the better (for vegan bodybuilding promotion purposes).

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 2:37 pm 
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True that!

Me even being vegetarian, like every second guy I talked about this topic asked something like "hey, but your body is missing out on sth, right? That's not healthy..."

So in that sense, someone like Ben is perfect to smash all those prejudices that vegs are confronted with!!!

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 12:18 pm 
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oh my god, his arms are like my chest! :)
what a huge guy!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:29 pm 
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Lelle your so funny!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think the fact that he has NEVER eaten meat is VERY impressive, alomost impossible to believe. Really?? Never as in never ever????

Just because he is vegetarian, that does not mean that he wears animal products though. Only Big ben or maybe Rob can asnwer that question for sure. I know that when I irst became vegetarian, I also immediately gave up wearing animal skins. To me, it is all part and parcel of the same beleif - animals are not ours to eat or wear or use in entertainment. Wearing a cow is no less acceptable or ethical than eating one, right???? At least that is how I saw it right from the very start.

Anyway, Big ben is still an awesome guy for being animal flesh free for his entire life. That is AMAZING Big Ben. Thanks for caring about the animals and the planet.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:28 am 
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I wish I was raised like Big Ben, becouse my parents always made me believe I would get sick if I didn't eat meat. In The Netherlands everyone makes fun of you when you don't eat meat. For example: If I eat a veggy burger, they call it a faggy burger(I have to give them credit, becouse it is a bit funny). And my parents always say I am annoying becouse I don't want to eat what they eat, even though I have not been sick since being vegetarian, they still bug me.
And about the vegetarian part, it's not as good as vegan, but still beter than eating meat. And I don't wear leather and don't know much about it, but I think it is a by product from meat production. And eggs are not bad, becouse if a male chicken hasn't been near the egg it isn't going to hatch. It is just the same as a woman having her period, that is when the unused eggs are thrown away with some blood(or so I am told). The only thing bad about eggs is the way chickens are abused and put in little cages. But if you have chickens at home I guess it wouldn't be a problem(except for the high amount of cholesterol).
And for milk goes the same. Certain cows produce more milk than their babys need(or so I am told). This doesn't happen in commercial cow farming, so I prefer soy milk.
And although I do not eat meat, I still can't deny it is a natural food source for humans(check the cutting teeth designed for cutting raw meat). But even though it is in the humans instinct to eat meat, I still think it is wrong just like other things humans would do if there wheren't any rules(such as rape and cannibalism). The way I see it, people have evolved a lot since the beginning of time. They went from crawling to standing, so they can go from a meat diet to a vegetable diet.
And how do al you vegans feel about predators? They eat meat, but they are animals(which vegans can't eat).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:46 am 
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i am afraid that you are misinformed.

leather is not a by product. it is actually just about the most profitable part of the animal, so has an equal role in the death of the creature as the flesh.
egg farming is directly comprable to the holocaust. as well as the male chicks being crushed/gassed/suffocated at two days old to make feed for their sisters, the female chickens live in tiny cages for their entire life (360 square centimetres is what the US poultry standard is) unless they are 'lucky' enough to be free range where most of them never see the outdoors as the exit is tiny, and if they do its just a barren overcrowded yard.
milk production is insanely cruel. the male calfs are useless for dairy so they are either sold for veal, or castrated (86% of cases without aneasthetic) and sold for beef.
the female cow then has to be impregnated every year to ensure that she produces a regular supply of milk.
the calf is then taken away from the mother at 2days old (immensely distressing for both mother and child) and fed a poor milk substitute, so the mothers milk can be taken.
cows now produce 3times as much milk as in the 1950's, and all cows suffer from mastitis (inflamation of the teat) at some point and most suffer from lameness.
meat is not a natural food source for humans at all. our teeth do not resemble those of a cat, and our guts are far too long for us to eat meat. for instance, a cats gut is only twice as long as its body whereas our small intestines are 20ft long by themselves.
the reason why there is so much more bowel cnacer these days is down to increased meat consumption. it just sits in your belly and rots.

as humans have 'evolved' beyond the need to rely on animal products we cannot be excused when we eat them. your average lion or shark does not have the choice as to eat meat or not. besides it is their natural food.

i apolagise if i have caused offense but i suffer great ambivilence towards vegetarians. on the one hand they chose not to eat animals, which is commendable, but on the other hand many just replace meat with dairy, which causes no less suffering than if they ate meat.
also in my view, you either accept that animals are there to supply us with food or you dont, you are either a meat eater or vegan. there is no morally/logically defendable halfway point.

jonathan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:25 am 
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Well, I was just talking about some exceptions in wich it would be alright to consume dairy and eggs. I do know about the suffering with the production of them, since it is the standard PETA story.
Vegetarians do not contribute to the direct killing of animals. And when consuming other animal products it might be that you are contributing indirectly to the suffering and death of animals. But with everything you buy you support the suffering of animals. Not everyone in the veggieburger factory is a vegan, and not everyone at the post office(wich PETA uses to send their flyers and stuff) is a vegan. Although being vegan is probably the best way of preventing animal cruelty, it doesn't have to be.
I did not know about the leather, so I have learned something today. And I was not offended. And there will always be discussions about whether or not meat is a natural food source for humans.

greetings,

Gym Hater

PS. What does ambivilence mean? I looked it up in the dictionary(I am dutch), but couldn't find it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:51 am 
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it means feeling two separate conflicting emotions about the same thing.

unfortunately vegatarianism does directly cause animal death. for every two egg layers born, one is male, so killed. for every two dairy cows born, one is male so is shipped off to the meat industry, so killed. also when the chicken or cow becomes unproductive, they are killed in exactly the same brutal fashion, at a very young age. it is like humans being prematurely killed aged 25 (based on the fact that dairy cows are killed at 5 when they live for 20years and chickens being killed at 2 when they live for 10years).
peta is a bit ridiculous anyway. they are obsessed with celebrity culture and quite frequently make media mistakes where they create a lot of bad press. i honestly think, that whilst they are good intentioned, the animal rights cause would be better off without them.

jonathan

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:04 am 
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That is true, but what I mean by direct and indirect is: If you eat meat you eat a dead animal, thus directly contributing to the death of atleast one animal becouse there is no other way of getting meat.
By consuming dairy and eggs, it might also be that you are contributing to the suffering and death of an animal, but it does not have to. You can also have some pet chickens(which of course you give a happy life in you backyard), and take some of their eggs(which would't hatch becouse you do not have a male chicken).
The in-directly contributing to animal death is the killing of the male cows and such(like you described), but this can be prevented by not buying the dairy and eggs in the store. You can seek individuals whom have pet chickens, goats, cows etc. and buy dairy and eggs from them.

So vegetarians do NOT contribute directly to the killing of animals, unless they wear leather(which I learned today). However, they do indirectly contribute to the killing of animals, but so do vegans, since there is no way of escaping that becouse 99% of the money you spend will be supporting the killing of animals in some way.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:31 am 
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i disagree. whilst i am realistic that some of the businesses i support will use that money to buy animal products, nearly all of our shopping is done at veggie wholefood shops and we generally only eat at veggie places. being vegan is simply doing your utmost to limit any animal suffering. there is no way to limit it any further.

regarding pet animals - having pet chickens is not justifiable unless you rescue spent hens from slaughter. buying chicks is as bad as buying caged hen eggs. the same goes for cows, goats and sheep. but who honestly has the space to house chickens, let alone a cow.

i still disagree with the claim that dairy is indirect killing:

a) you eat beef, you kill a cow - direct killing
b) you eat cheese, male cow dies as it is useless, female cow killed when it no longer produces enough milk - direct killing.

it is also irrelevent whether or not is direct or not, being veggie still causes unnecessary death and suffering. instead of the animal simply suffering until it is fat enough to eat, if has to live much longer, under equally terrible conditions before it reaches the same cruel death.

there is no ethical argument for vegetariaism - it is a state which many people reach so as they can satisfy their feelings of guilt about exploiting animals. it barely reduces animal suffering and is dangerous as it stops many potential vegans from taking the logical, final step.

jonathan

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:27 pm 
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Well you have some good points, although I still do not agree with everything. Lets just agree to disagree.


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