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 Post subject: Body weight training and gaining size
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:15 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:32 am
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I am a boxer and do mainly body wieght endurance training: combat contidioning, running, and cals. I started to train 1 handed and one legged sqauts recently using the "grease the groove" method. I am not looking to bulk up but I was wondering what my potential may be for gaining mass doing this type of training. I eat around every two hours usually an apple or an orange and have three larger meals a day. In the morning oatmeal and fruit with protien supplement and soy milk, around 2:30 I eat vegetable and bean soup with some protien supplement (not in the soup) and a peanut butter sandwhich, and in the evening after practice I have more vegetable soup and bean soup and protien supplement and soy milk.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:35 pm 
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Gorilla

Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:40 pm
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Location: Somewhere eating.
I can tell you what happens with me. When I train specifically martial arts (muay thai and JKD) without weight training, just body workouts and running, I loose weight no matter how much food I eat. I have a very fast metabolism.

But if I stop the running, eat enough calories to actually gain weight, and focus on push ups, pull ups, one legged squats, handstand pushups, and all the assorted things that go with bodyweight (like planches and l-shits, etc, gymnastics stuff), I see a decent increase in size (no where near weightlifting size), but I feel much more powerful and strong.

If your looking to gain a bit of size while doing boxing, do some olympic lifts. Snatch, Clean and Press. Some squats, and deadlifts also work wonders.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:56 pm 
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Manatee
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Almost any program can encourage muscle growth, but you need to eat extra to gain weight. If you don't want to get bigger, don't eat extra.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:10 pm 
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Elephant
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I think it's possible to gain some size from bodyweight training and light weight lifting, but not as much as with heavy weight lifting. There's some people giving aerobic cardio-taï box style classes with very light weights and gained great muscles from just doing this, but everyday.
It's gonna give results for a better definition, tonify the muscles and increase endurance.

see the info on this similar thread :

Resistance Training for Endurance Athletes

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:50 pm 
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Elephant
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It's definitely possible to gain muscle doing bodyweight exercises. What you have to be careful of is when the bodyweight stuff turns into endurance stuff (ie hundreds of lunges and squats). Then it becomes almost like running, which is the devil to all bodybuilders.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:32 pm 
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Rabbit

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Well thats the point of combat conditioning. 300 hindu sqauts around two nights a week. Plus I run a little over 5k five days a week. My coach is anti bulk muscle, says its not for boxing.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:34 pm 
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Manatee
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Honestly you'd gain a lot more my doing maximal strength work. Power Cleans, Power Snatches, deadlifts, squats and bench press.
Check this out: http://www.dragondoor.com/cgi-bin/artic ... icleid=153
only talks about the big three, but including power work(cleans and snatches will really make you punch and kick harder.

With all you running and martial arts sparring I doubt endurance is what you lack. However increasing max strength will make everything easy so it almost acts like an endurance increase.For example I can sprint way faster and longer after starting weightlifting, simply because it's not as hard, even though my lungs have gone to shit(I smoke way too much.)

You can do these and increase max strength and not gain weight. Just don't eat extra. It happened to me(despite wanting to get bigger :lol:)

I'm guessing you may have read Pavel's Naked Warrior he also talks about the importance of maximal strength.

Remember more isn't better -better is better.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:48 pm 
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Rabbit

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Yea I lifted for two years before I started boxing but my coach says no weightts so I'm going to listen. Yea I just got Pavel's book so I'm starting to train one arms and one leggers. That should give me a decent amount of power. My coaches issue with weight training is that it takes away from the range of motion and the ability to flow.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:03 pm 
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Manatee
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LightFoot wrote:
Yea I lifted for two years before I started boxing but my coach says no weightts so I'm going to listen. Yea I just got Pavel's book so I'm starting to train one arms and one leggers. That should give me a decent amount of power. My coaches issue with weight training is that it takes away from the range of motion and the ability to flow.


Not quite sure what you mean by 'ability to flow' but if it's what I imagine I don't think proper weight training should effect it. I know the smoothness of my motions and the range I can go through have increased from Olympic Lifting. My couch has also helped martial artists in the past to good effect.

So I'd say find a new couch, but I don't question mine, so I can't blame you for doing the same! I just can't see where he gets this outdated ideas.....

If you won't use weights perhaps plyometrics? They'll build power without weights, not sure what they do for max strength...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:05 pm 
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Gorilla

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Ok. So no weights at all.

You are on the good track doing one legged squats and such. Try handstand push-ups for shoulders. They are brutal. Really slow push ups, and even one handed push ups are great also.

Pull Ups are probably one of the best upper shoulder/back exercises around. And being a boxer your back needs to be in tremendous shape.

If you ever run out of ideas. Think Rocky. Go back and watch them. I have gotten so many ideas for MA just by watching the Rocky series!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:19 pm 
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Rabbit

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Yea I do 3 sets of ten hand stand push ups (againsts a wall but nearly vertical, and I cant do a full one so I go down as far as I can).

I've been thinking about tossing in some clapper push ups.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:20 pm 
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Elephant
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Try also isometric exercices, against walls for instance.

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