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 Post subject: Re: Athlete says sports steroids changed him from woman to man
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:29 pm 
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Manatee
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medman wrote:
I'm not certain what research has been done on that type of situation (born female, but given testosterone during puberty).

Psychologically, I imagine that the masculinized frame, and lack of breast development and periods would certainly affect a woman's body image. But I'm not saying it's as simple as looking in the mirror and saying "I look like a man. I guess I'm attracted to women now" :P


It's the last line that the headline of the story suggests. And I do believe it's misleading (and the biggest reason it irked me, although the use of steroids in general should be seen as appalling rather than the norm). It's not always easy to take the path of transition and is very dangerous in many ways.

In the transgender group I'm in, I'm the oldest person transitioning. The average age is around 18-19 I think. And I know there is some research being done on those that transition before puberty hit (yes, there have been cases recently of this -- medically,things are far better than they were say 5 years ago). For an FTM it's easier to do the transition (whether before or after, although some surgery options are way beyond normal price options) than an MTF.


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 Post subject: Re: Athlete says sports steroids changed him from woman to man
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:00 am 
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VeganEssentials wrote:
SyrLinus wrote:
I don't understand what's happened to the concept of "all things being equal, let's see who's the best".


Sadly, those days are gone and will probably never be back again.

Were those days ever here to begin with? As long as people have been competing, I reckon people have been cheating by various means.

Should the title read 'changed her from woman to man?'

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 Post subject: Re: Athlete says sports steroids changed him from woman to man
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:31 am 
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Tarz wrote:
VeganEssentials wrote:
SyrLinus wrote:
I don't understand what's happened to the concept of "all things being equal, let's see who's the best".


Sadly, those days are gone and will probably never be back again.

Were those days ever here to begin with? As long as people have been competing, I reckon people have been cheating by various means.

Should the title read 'changed her from woman to man?'


No. Because that person identifies as a man now, the correct term would be to use "him" since he is a guy now.


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 Post subject: Re: Athlete says sports steroids changed him from woman to man
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:40 pm 
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SyrLinus wrote:
For an FTM it's easier to do the transition (whether before or after, although some surgery options are way beyond normal price options) than an MTF.


Why? I would have thought the reverse. Not to be crude, where does the FTM get the new parts?

Are there issues with cancer since sex hormones are being taken?

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 Post subject: Re: Athlete says sports steroids changed him from woman to man
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:40 pm 
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beforewisdom wrote:
SyrLinus wrote:
For an FTM it's easier to do the transition (whether before or after, although some surgery options are way beyond normal price options) than an MTF.


Why? I would have thought the reverse. Not to be crude, where does the FTM get the new parts?

Are there issues with cancer since sex hormones are being taken?


Heh.. it's easier to grow hair, go bald, have one's voice drop and remove breasts than the other way. Bottom surgery for an FTM (the creation of a penis) still remains cost-prohibitive (somewhere between $50-100K+ and may or may not work/look like a penis) so many FTMs use a prosthetic of some variation. It's also easier to appear as a short boy or stocky guy.

For an MtF it's harder to remove facial hair (usually requires quite a few electrolysis trips), raise the voice (vocal cord scraping), breast augmentation, etc. Surgeries will total somewhere (I've been told) about $30-40K grand total. Additionally, there have been far more surgeries done for MtFs over the years compared to FTMs (FTM surgery has only been very prominent in the last 10 years or so although there have been some done before this -- it seems in the last 5 years FTM transitioning has picked up as the technology and awareness has gotten better). The actual creation (technical creation) varies from surgeon to surgeon but from what I've understood they'll take a skin graft (from the arm, leg or abdomen) and form the actual penis from that. A tube may be inserted into it to help with urination as well as addition options to give it the effect of "erection".

As for cancer and other health risks, there are always risks. Any doctor will do proper blood work before and during hormone treatment. Using myself as an example, I have to watch out not only for my female born risks (until I have a hysto -- a common procedure for an FTM -- I still run the risk of ovarian cancer) but I also have to watch out for baldness (oh yay. :roll: ), high cholesterol and other male issues (prostate cancer isn't a risk AFAIK ;) )

Hopefully that answers your question. As an FYI: I'm pretty open about my own transition but others may not be so others who transition might find your question a little putting off.


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 Post subject: Re: Athlete says sports steroids changed him from woman to man
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:53 pm 
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SyrLinus wrote:
Tarz wrote:
Should the title read 'changed her from woman to man?'

No. Because that person identifies as a man now, the correct term would be to use "him" since he is a guy now.

Well I think it should read 'changed her' as she was a she before these drugs started altering her body. She'll always be a she - a birth certificate don't lie.

No offence meant - just my take on things.

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 Post subject: Re: Athlete says sports steroids changed him from woman to man
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:32 pm 
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Tarz,

When I was 14 I began some heavy thinking about my religious and philosophical views. I left the religion and belief system I was born into. I took a journey, chose new beliefs and have lived by those choices for decades. Yet, despite all of that thinking, feeling and living my family still thinks I'm _______. I'm mostly neutral about that, but it has never rubbed me the right way.

A person's identity can be about more than the circumstances of their birth, sometimes it is about who they choose to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Athlete says sports steroids changed him from woman to man
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:22 pm 
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Tarz wrote:
SyrLinus wrote:
Tarz wrote:
Should the title read 'changed her from woman to man?'

No. Because that person identifies as a man now, the correct term would be to use "him" since he is a guy now.

Well I think it should read 'changed her' as she was a she before these drugs started altering her body. She'll always be a she - a birth certificate don't lie.

No offence meant - just my take on things.


Actually, one can change the gender marker on a birth certificate (in most states and countries). Since he identifies as a man calling him "she" would be disrespectful. While you are welcomed to your opinion, doesn't make it right.

And I hope you wouldn't do that with me either.


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 Post subject: Re: Athlete says sports steroids changed him from woman to man
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:25 pm 
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I've read this in the newspaper the other day : Stella Walsh is a Polonese who's the first woman to run 100 meters in less than 12 seconds. That was in 1932, at Los Angeles olympic games. When she died, the autopsy revealed she was a he.

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 Post subject: Re: Athlete says sports steroids changed him from woman to man
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:33 pm 
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SyrLinus wrote:
Actually, one can change the gender marker on a birth certificate (in most states and countries). Since he identifies as a man calling him "she" would be disrespectful. While you are welcomed to your opinion, doesn't make it right.

I know one can change a birth certificate - OK, let's rephrase things - the original (and only one that really matters as no-one is born twice) birth certificate doesn't lie.

I could identify myself as a giraffe, doesn't actually make me one.

BW - we can choose to do many things, it still doesn't change what we truly are.

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 Post subject: Re: Athlete says sports steroids changed him from woman to man
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:08 am 
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Marcina wrote:

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I watched a show about steroids and there were guys in their early 40s suffering major heart attacks from using steroids in their 20s.


Yeah I saw similar program here in the UK.These people really are stupid.

As for the whole sex change thing:

It might be worth noting that we are all members of the same species, just split into 2 sexes.It always makes people think when I suggest the possibility that there could have been 3 sexes.... all needed for reproduction, think about that.

We define ourselves into male/female as if we are stone/tree but the distance between us is smaller than we think.

It is true that some animals like frogs can change sex depending on certain factors.

Its all very fascinating & if you take a wider view of it all, it becomes even more fascinating.

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