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 Post subject: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:59 am 
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Manatee

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:20 pm
Posts: 308
I have been trying for nearly two years now to get a tight, flat stomach.....with no success. I have lost weight but I still can't get rid of my 'muffin tope' that spills over my jeans. This really gets me down so I have been considering liposuction.

Can anyone thing of a way I could achieve my goals without expensive surgery?


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 Post subject: Re: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:10 am 
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Elephant
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Eat less than you burn, but take lots of protein and enough fat. Train a lot.

You'll keep losing fat as long as you burn more calories than you consume. It's not witchcraft. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:07 am 
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Elephant

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 2783
dont eat too much seitan either. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:46 am 
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Elephant

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:48 pm
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden.
When you say that you have "tried for two years" what do you exaclty mean? Training regime, nutrition etc. Have you lost any weight at all and if so, how much? Are you sure it isn't loose skin and not fat?
As my friend Tuuka said, it's not witchcraft. If you eat less calories than you burn you will loose weight. Burning fat can be hard but it is far from impossible and surgery shouldn't be needed.
If you post your current stats (height, weight, bf%) and your goal I'm sure it will be a lot easier to help you.

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 Post subject: Re: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:58 am 
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Stegosaurus
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seitan_man;

You may not have any significant amount of fat left to lose. You may simply have loose skin. There have been many informative threads about that. You might want to use the search tool on this site to find some interesting viewpoints on that.

Liposuction, sucking fat out, is actually something different. I don't know if it is true, but I heard a side effect can be fat coming back, but in odd places since the fat cells where they would usually go have been removed.

I would google on both procedures and go to the library to learn about any potential downsides. Then go see at least two doctors who specialize in each surgery to get estimates about what they can do and what you can afford.

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 Post subject: Re: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:18 am 
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Manatee
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:59 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Liposuction is a big deal. My aunt had it on her stomach, and was bedridden for weeks. She looks great now, but it was not a small ordeal.

In regards to 'fat coming back'..... my understanding is that we have a set number of fat 'cells' that simply expand and shrink based on how much you eat. They don't travel or move around in your body. (I sat in on all the doctor visits cause I didn't think my aunt was doing enough research, or asking enough questions). But her scars are tiny and barely noticeable.

If it is loose skin, that may require a much larger scar.

Knowing your stats and nutritional habits will help....


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 Post subject: Re: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:58 pm 
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Manatee

Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:45 pm
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Location: Portland, OR
I'd first like to say that I disagree with the oft-repeated mantra that if you "eat less than you burn" you'll lose weight. While this is kind of true to an extent, it is often much more complicated in practice for many reasons. Your body is a complicated machine, and everyone is different.

That being said, I do agree that it's not witchcraft. Eating well, and exercising often, will help your body achieve the balance that is most natural for it.

But for some people that natural, healthy balance is not what they think they should look like. Some people are naturally heavier than others, or naturally thinner than others (which can be just as frustrating if you're a man trying to build muscle).

Many other environmental factors go into how your body looks, including stress levels and how you cope with stress. This includes dietary stress, so I would agree with the advice to not each as much seitan. The amount of sleep you get, and the quality of it also affects how your body reacts to diet and exercise, as does the type of exercise. You can eat/exercise in a way that trains your body to use fat as a fuel more than other types of eating/training, thus burning more fat with the same amount of food/exercise.

But I also agree that it would be helpful to hear what seitan_man's exercise/diet plan is like before passing judgment. I just think that it's a little too simplistic to simply say "eat less than you burn," as this type of approach to dieting can be harmful to the body, and sometimes lead to the retention of fat, as in some cases when your body does not have enough high-quality fuel to fuel work outs, it will attempt to retain fat as a survival mechanism.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:36 pm 
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Manatee
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Location: Rockville, MD
Excellent post Dandaman! Also factor in age and hormonal activity.

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 Post subject: Re: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:04 pm 
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Manatee

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:20 pm
Posts: 308
I jog or have a long, brisk walk most days and do lots and lots of press ups, abs work and bodyweight exercises such as pull ups and dips. I usually start the day with muesli or oatmeal with soy milk and a banana as well as a cup of nettle tea. Somedays I may have wholemeal toast and on a Saturday I may have a vegan cooked breakfast.

Lunch is usally some type of salad with fake meat, often incorporating beans. Dinner can be anything, but I try to eat plenty pulses and lentils as well as fruit and green veg. I often eat veggie burgers too.

I have definitely lost weight since I first started going to the gym/exercising seriously about 2 years ago and was even told by a PT before I ever set foot in the gym, after taking all my measurements etc. that I was slightly *underweight*. I am 5'6" and wear 28" waist jeans.

Edited to add: The 'Body For Life' book didn't help at all, what a waste of time! I cannot believe that those before and after pictures are real either.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:56 pm 
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Elephant
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Location: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Sleep, stress, food, age, and hormones all play a role in how many calories your body burns, so if you eat fewer calories than that, you will lose weight. It's not a mantra, it's thermodynamics. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:34 pm 
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Manatee

Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:45 pm
Posts: 223
Location: Portland, OR
Fallen_Horse wrote:
Sleep, stress, food, age, and hormones all play a role in how many calories your body burns, so if you eat fewer calories than that, you will lose weight. It's not a mantra, it's thermodynamics. :)


It's still an oversimplification. It implies that if you eat less and work out more, that's the ticket to losing weight. That's not always the case, and a lot of the times when it *is* the case, it's not healthy weight loss. And it's also not the case that just because you're losing weight, that you're burning fat. Then there's also that your body doesn't use 100% of what you put in it, and certain types of foods/calories will make you retain fat while a higher number of calories from another type may help you burn it. Simple calorie-counting does not factor these kinds of things in.

Simply saying put in less than you take out is an oversimplification that confuses people, and I think, should be avoided. The goal should be health, energy, and vibrancy, not counting calories and steps on your daily walk and trying to formulate an "am I taking in less than I'm expending" way to eat and exercise.

Just my $.02.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:15 pm 
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Location: England
damdaman, I think it'd be useful to seitan_man and others if you gave some examples of:

What type of exercise burns fat
How much sleep to get in order to get your body to burn fat
How to avoid stress (perhaps?)
What types of foods help to burn fat
What types of foods should be avoided since they will make you retain fat

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 Post subject: Re: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:07 pm 
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Manatee

Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:45 pm
Posts: 223
Location: Portland, OR
Richard wrote:
damdaman, I think it'd be useful to seitan_man and others if you gave some examples of:

What type of exercise burns fat
How much sleep to get in order to get your body to burn fat
How to avoid stress (perhaps?)
What types of foods help to burn fat
What types of foods should be avoided since they will make you retain fat


No problem. While I don't necessarily follow his ideas completely, I'm a big fan of Brendan Brazier, and I think he does an excellent job of explaining about why/how you should eat "net gain" foods instead counting calories, how to avoid dietary stress and deal with the stress you do have in your life better, how to train your body to burn more fat while training, etc, than I can, so I suggest reading his book.

That being said, the goal is to eat more alkaline-forming, easily digested foods. This often means more raw foods, but not necessarily entirely. The energy your body puts into digesting food, and the stress that this can create, and also the acidic environment that is usually left behind, are major factors in how much nourishment you actually get from the food, and how much that food is actually helping your body, rather than harming it. Refined foods are the biggest culprit, flours and fried foods, stimulants (caffeine), alcohol, foods containing unnatural ingredients (flavors, colors, fortified with things), etc. Metabolic acidosis can occur from creating an environment in your body that is too acidic from these kinds of foods and from sources of stress. Metabolic acidosis, among other health issues, causes a reduction in growth hormone and an increase in cortisol (stress hormone), leading to retention of body fat and loss of muscle. Additionally, eating too little and not providing your body with the nutrients it needs is also stressful to your body, and can lead to the same hormonal response, thus causing you to lose muscle/bone density (your body will pull calcium from your bones to buffer your blood from the acidic environment) while dieting, instead of fat.

As for exercise, your body will burn mostly glucose for the first 90 minutes of exercise. To burn more fat, you want to aim for longer stretches of lower-intensity exercise. Working out for 30 minutes, even if it's a really high-intensity workout, does not burn much fat.

As for sleep, that certainly varies from person to person. But the goal should be to wake up naturally and feel replenished when you do, rather than tired and needing coffee.

I hope this is helpful. Again, I'm not nearly as good at explaining some of these things as others, but they're sound concepts that have been studied, and I recommend reading Brazier's book yourself if you want to hear more detail from a more authoritive source.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:16 pm 
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Site Admin
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Location: England
Yeah that's great thanks :) lots of people recommend Brendan's books, I need to pick one of those up

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 Post subject: Re: Considering liposuction....
PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:23 pm 
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Elephant

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:48 pm
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden.
The thrive diet is awesome :D

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When someone says you don't train "functionally," you should just punch them in the face. Ask them how "functional" of a movement that was.


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