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 Post subject: Eastern Europeans Continue to Dominant Heavy Weight Boxing
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:47 am 
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Gorilla

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:19 pm
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Vitali Klitschko stops Peter to reclaim WBC title
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gnJH ... QD93OOIH00

WBC: Vitali Klitschko (Ukraine)
WBA: Nicolay Valuev (Russia)
IBF: Wladimir Klitschko (Ukraine)

Question: What's wrong with todays American Heavy Weight boxers besides the fact that they suck? :x


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 Post subject: Re: Eastern Europeans Continue to Dominant Heavy Weight Boxing
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:18 am 
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Elephant
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I thought black guys ruled heavyweight boxing?

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 Post subject: Re: Eastern Europeans Continue to Dominant Heavy Weight Boxing
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:04 am 
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Gorilla

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DaN wrote:
I thought black guys ruled heavyweight boxing?
Not since Lennox Lewis retired and he's British/Canadian/Jamacian not American.


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 Post subject: Re: Eastern Europeans Continue to Dominant Heavy Weight Boxing
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:12 am 
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Elephant
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Shows how long its been since I followed boxing....

I used to watch it in the Mike Tyson through to Lennox Lewis era's.Back then if you saw a white guy in the ring, you knew he was gonna get knocked out pretty soon.

So the Eastern Europeans are at the top now..?

Doesnt surprise me, those guys are solid & fearless too.

I'd still completely own them, obviously :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Eastern Europeans Continue to Dominant Heavy Weight Boxing
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:17 pm 
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Gorilla

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DaN wrote:
So the Eastern Europeans are at the top now..?

Doesnt surprise me, those guys are solid & fearless too.
They're all huge. The Klitschkos' are 6 feet 7 inches, 6 feet 6 inches tall approximately 250lbs or so respectively and Valuev is 7 feet tall 300lbs+


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 Post subject: Re: Eastern Europeans Continue to Dominant Heavy Weight Boxing
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:33 am 
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Elephant
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Blimey, something went wrong with the gene pool out there :o

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 Post subject: Re: Eastern Europeans Continue to Dominant Heavy Weight Boxing
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:52 am 
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Rabbit
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veganmomma wrote:
They're all huge. The Klitschkos' are 6 feet 7 inches, 6 feet 6 inches tall approximately 250lbs or so respectively and Valuev is 7 feet tall 300lbs+

Not quite.

Chagaev and Povetkin are two leading Eastern Europeans and they are both under 6'2.

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 Post subject: Re: Eastern Europeans Continue to Dominant Heavy Weight Boxing
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:24 am 
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one thing that i noticed - and please correct my anytime since i am only following boxing with a passing interest- when i watched the last two klitschko fights ( vitali klitschko vs. samuel peter and wladimir vs. tony thompson) was the difference in physique between the klitschkos and their opponents. while peter and thompson gave the term heavy weight their own meaning, the klitschkos were towering masses of rippled muscles. to me they seem to be really incredible athletes with a fierce spirit and endless endurance.

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 Post subject: Re: Eastern Europeans Continue to Dominant Heavy Weight Boxing
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:49 am 
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Rabbit
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i dont think these eastern European champions are even that good; just that the americans now suck. If those guys fought in the 70s you wouldnt have heared of them, despite the fact so many of them are enourmous. Valuev the 7ft guy actually got beaten by Chageav who's just over 6ft and about 100lbs lighter, and he only just scraped by John Ruiz twice who's a blown up middleweight or something. Even James Toney who's an old washed up middleweight with an enourmous gut and breasts has managed to make himself a top condender. In the 90s with Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield and Bowe and even an ancient George foreman and Larry holmes the leading heavyweights now, with the possible exception of the Klitchsko bros would be unknown

Apparantly Evander Holyfield whos now 46 is fighting 7ft tall Nikolei Valuev sometime soon

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 Post subject: Re: Eastern Europeans Continue to Dominant Heavy Weight Boxing
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:10 am 
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Mik wrote:
i dont think these eastern European champions are even that good; just that the americans now suck.
Mik, I agree. American heavyweight boxers suck these days. :( Most good 200lb+ American athletes play football because the average pro football player makes more money and has better job security than the average pro boxer.

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 Post subject: Re: Eastern Europeans Continue to Dominant Heavy Weight Boxing
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:30 am 
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slavetothegrind wrote:
the difference in physique between the klitschkos and their opponents. while peter and thompson gave the term heavy weight their own meaning, the klitschkos were towering masses of rippled muscles.

The obsession with ripped abs in boxing and mma is quite sad. I think people are still coming to terms with the mistakes made in the 80s when bodybuilding training methods were applied to all sports. The boxers looked great, but gassed early. Fighters today train smarter, they may look less ripped but they are fitter and better athletes.

Mik wrote:
i dont think these eastern European champions are even that good; just that the americans now suck. If those guys fought in the 70s you wouldnt have heared of them, despite the fact so many of them are enourmous. Valuev the 7ft guy actually got beaten by Chageav who's just over 6ft and about 100lbs lighter, and he only just scraped by John Ruiz twice who's a blown up middleweight or something. Even James Toney who's an old washed up middleweight with an enourmous gut and breasts has managed to make himself a top condender. In the 90s with Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield and Bowe and even an ancient George foreman and Larry holmes the leading heavyweights now, with the possible exception of the Klitchsko bros would be unknown

Apparantly Evander Holyfield whos now 46 is fighting 7ft tall Nikolei Valuev sometime soon

I disagree with most of this too, especially saying the eastern Europeans are poor. There have always been shifts in the boxing demographic. Jewish fighters were dominant in the early 20th century, by the second half of the century they were virtually non-existant. American heavyweights are more rare now, but other countries are producing better guys to take up the slack.

Styles make fights. There is little point in saying Valuev is poor as he lost to Chageav who struggled with Ruiz. Pick any champion in boxing history and you'll find they are just a fighter or two away from mediocrity. Ali lost to Norton who was KO'd in one by Cooney and so on. Ruiz is a very talented spoiler, the recent incarnation would have posed many problems for any heavyweight.

For James Toney read Archie Moore, who as a tubby 40 something became a top heavyweight contender in the 50s. Throughout every era heavyweights have managed to hang about and cause problems.

I think the current crop of eastern europeans would have fared very well against the Foreman and Holmes of the 90s. Which fights are you considering standout for Holmes in the 90s? The Bowe who got battered twice by the Eastern European Golota might disagree with you too. Bowe was fresh off stopping Holyfield in those days.

The main shift in heavyweight boxing is that sports science and training methods have evolved (away from bodybuilding methods) which means that the super-heavyweight guys can last 12 rounds. In the past a 6'7 270 pounder would have been gassed midway through the fight, before being eaten up by a more dynamic, lighter heavyweight. Now they can fight effectively for 12 rounds and have very decent skills. It's not always fun to watch, but it's tough to beat.

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 Post subject: Re: Eastern Europeans Continue to Dominant Heavy Weight Boxing
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:40 pm 
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Gorilla

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:16 am
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I think it's pretty simple answer why there's no good american HW's. If your a big strong athletic kid growing up in America your going to be playing Football, basketball and baseball. Boxing is a very tuff way to make a living as is MMA and only the best of the best are making soild money and gaining fame that comes from being a Pro athlete. You can be a Low Level NBA player and still make over a mil a year and not have to get hit in the face daily. Even though i like Boxing it's dying in America and MMA is growing at such a fast rate that soon it will be as big or bigger then boxing was in the 70's. Then you'll see americans at the top of the food chain of HW MMA


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