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 Post subject: MYTE or not??
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:35 am 
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Rabbit

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:34 am
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i guess im from the old school, and been away from real working out for some years ...

is that myth that cardio will burn your muschels?? or no?


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 Post subject: Re: MYTE or not??
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:53 pm 
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hahaha, no, where on earth did you hear that. :lachmal: :lachmal: :lachmal:

your body will only burn muscle as a last resort, that is to say it will only burn muscle when your body has no fat to burn, and no energy from food. so if you eat enough...no.


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 Post subject: Re: MYTE or not??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:48 am 
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Addai wrote:

your body will only burn muscle as a last resort, that is to say it will only burn muscle when your body has no fat to burn, and no energy from food. so if you eat enough...no.


Is that true? I always thought that that's why you had to lift weights while trying to lose fat, otherwise your body will lose muscle and not fat and that's how you end up skinny fat.

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 Post subject: Re: MYTE or not??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:01 pm 
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Actually, human body is more keen on preserving fat and not muscle since muscle is energy spending for the body to be kept and when no ground is given to keep the muscles then we'll end up with broken protein from our muscles and aminos ready to be used for instant energy..Our human nature is not to have large muscles, but fat..Body carries muscles only when forced to do (through training in order to protect itself). That makes sense though only when kcals in < kcals out, that's when instant energy is needed to complete our inner functions and muscle's protein is being used as energy easier than fat tissue..And that's why, when trying to lose weight in a healthy way, one should bump up the protein and start lifting pretty hard (even if one doesn't care about muscle building at first place)..


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 Post subject: Re: MYTE or not??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:08 pm 
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that is for 1000% sure not true, cardio will burn fat and muschels too.


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 Post subject: Re: MYTE or not??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:00 pm 
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Gorilla

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:58 am
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lobsteriffic wrote:
Addai wrote:
your body will only burn muscle as a last resort, that is to say it will only burn muscle when your body has no fat to burn, and no energy from food. so if you eat enough...no.

Is that true? I always thought that that's why you had to lift weights while trying to lose fat, otherwise your body will lose muscle and not fat and that's how you end up skinny fat.

Your body constantly burns muscle, more so during cardio, but not to a degree where you need to worry unless you're undernourished or doing insane amounts of aerobic exercise. It's normal protein turnover.

If you lose weight quickly without lifting weights, then yes, you'll lose a bunch of muscle, because it's implied you're doing a ton of cardio and are on a diet. In that case, your body is smart enough to conserve energy as best it can, which involves reducing calorie-expensive muscle tissue. But that's not the general case.

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 Post subject: Re: MYTE or not??
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:27 pm 
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Correct, the body does prefer muscle as a first line of fuel during activity. However, you can do a reasonable amount of cardio and keep muscle on, PROVIDING you keep a balance calorie-wise. Nobody will be an ultramarathon runner and be a 250+ lb. muscled giant (that kind of long-term cardio work is definitely not good for keeping muscle gains), but you could certainly run for an hour a handful of times per week and maintain muscle mass if you eat enough to compensate. If you put yourself at a massive caloric defeceit via hour after hour of cardio, then sure, muscle will be used for fuel. However, in moderation, cardio is not going to waste away muscle gains as long as things are kept in proper balance.

If cardio didn't burn muscle, then back when I was running 6 miles/day on top of my weight training, I'd have been ripped down to the bone. Things just don't work that way, though, and I ended up losing too much muscle trying to diet off the last 10 lbs. of fat. Balance is key!

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 Post subject: Re: MYTE or not??
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:17 am 
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VeganEssentials that make sence

so how can i find the right blance??? is that alot proteine, and not to much cardio plus waight training?

iv always been abel to do alot in bench and dead lift and so on, but iv never been truly cut.


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 Post subject: Re: MYTE or not??
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:52 am 
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Uromastyx wrote:
VeganEssentials that make sence

so how can i find the right blance??? is that alot proteine, and not to much cardio plus waight training?

iv always been abel to do alot in bench and dead lift and so on, but iv never been truly cut.


I should have specified a bit more, muscle will be a preferred source of fuel for the body WHEN it is delpeted of other more readily-available sources (typical during prolonged intense cardio work).

I would recommend that doing lower-intensity cardio for moderate durations would be best (20-40 minutes, keeping about 60-65% of max heart rate), perhaps 2-3 times per week. HIIT (high-intensity interval training) style cardio works well for some people, doing things like 60 seconds sprinting (or all-out biking), then 60 seconds slower movement, and repeating for about 10 minutes and keeping it short in duration. Both seem to work best for many people who want to shed fat without losing much muscle along with it, so if you're going to do cardio, those are probably the two best options to consider.

I've managed to lose about 23 lbs. in the past 10 months or so (mostly fat, but I'm sure a few lbs. of muscle mass) simply by doing higer-rep weight training and cutting rest periods. It's not all that great for gaining muscle, but I've had periods where I'll do exercises with a moderate weight and make sure to get sets that are 20 reps or more. That's been doing well for me for quite a while, combined with cleaning up my diet a lot. There are things like Crossfit-style training that can be good for fat loss, which usually involves lots of weight training and bodyweight exercises done for high-rep work via their various programs (go to the Crossfit website for more details), otherwise, doing things like barbell complexes with light weights can be good. This would involve doing multi-exercise sets for multiple rounds, such as -

Barbell deadlift, into
Shrug, into
Hang clean, into
Overhead press, into
Overhead squat, lower bar and repeat for something like 5 rounds, rest 2-3 minutes, and repeat for perhaps 3-5 sets.

Here's an example:



Some people do them with multiple reps on each movement before moving to the next, but I was originally taught to do one rep of each on the cycle and repeat. Here's an example of the "other" way that seems to be more common:



You don't need much weight with complexes - just a little more than the bar to start (or, maybe just the bar!), a good round of compound movements that flow into each other, and let your imagination run wild with combinations that seem good. I felt like dying when I had a trainer putting me through these at first, but every week I put another 5-10 lbs. on the lifts and was able to add a rep (started with 5 sets of 5 reps, worked up to 5 sets of 10 reps), and by the end, my conditioning was MUCH better, and it was definitely helping with fat loss as well.

Just a few ideas for you!

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"A 'hardgainer' is merely someone who hasn't bothered to try enough different training methods to learn what is actually right for their own damned body." - anonymous


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 Post subject: Re: MYTE or not??
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:28 am 
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Gorilla

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:58 am
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VeganEssentials wrote:
otherwise, doing things like barbell complexes with light weights can be good. This would involve doing multi-exercise sets for multiple rounds, such as -

Barbell deadlift, into
Shrug, into
Hang clean, into
Overhead press, into
Overhead squat, lower bar and repeat for something like 5 rounds, rest 2-3 minutes, and repeat for perhaps 3-5 sets.

Just another vote for barbell complexes. I started these at VE's recommendation, and they're absolutely killer. That's pretty much the exact sequence I use, 5 reps per exercise to start, declining as the sets climb. It wears you out quickly and, in my opinion, it's much more fun than jogging or biking.

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 Post subject: Re: MYTE or not??
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:47 pm
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Location: New York
Well, let me sort of rectify what I said. In periods of intense cardio, your muscles can certainly be used for fuel, but again so long as you're eating, you're going to be fine. I ran distance with a number of very muscular guys (even a muscle ultra-marathoner [not bodybuilder muscular, but a great physique], so there!). They exist.

But fat is stored energy. It's meant to be released more slowly, which is why it isn't burned up during intense cardio. Think about like, human evolution here. Food could be scarce, so energy needed to be stored long term, i.e. fat. But sometimes we had to run away from the dinosaurs, in which case our muscles could be used. But let's say we take away the dinosaur fleeing. The fat will be burned first. If you study starvation you'll tend to see that people waste away, losing both muscle and fat, but generally they'll lose all body fat and still have some muscle, at which point muscle becomes an emergency fuel.

At least, that's as I understand it, and some of it might have been partially correct. But the important thing is it's silly to think that cardio is going to burn muscle. Just eat! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: MYTE or not??
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:21 am 
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Rabbit

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:34 am
Posts: 20
barbell complexes this looks fun and very hard , ill try that today:)

if i go 5-7 days in the week to train, would you recomend that i do some real waightlifting too? just to try and keep the muschles i got:)

i was thinking 2 days a week i trains the whole body, deadlift,bench,squat,some pull, mili press plus some more.(only 5-8reps)

and maybe 3-5 days a week i mix cardio with barbell complexes???


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