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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:57 pm 
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Finch
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As an experiment in September I decided to abstain from eating soy just to see what the effects it would be. I've been solid in my commitment all the way up to the present day and have I noticed a difference? Yes, definately... but I'll qualify my conclusions about soy by saying two things. #1 I'm a naturally lean person and losing or gaining weight has always been a problem for me and #2 throughout my life I've had ongoing issues with acne. Through the spring and summer I was bulking and put on a big gut from the crazy amounts of soy protein I was taking in to support muscle growth from lifting ie. 2 scoops of soy protein powder + at least a few servings of tofu and tvp everyday. Now I did gain weight and become significantly larger but I needed to cut back during the fall to shave off this extra fat I put on my gut during my bulk period. Also, around this time is when I was reading all those anti-soy articles that have been swimming around the internet so I decided to see if there was something to it because at the least I needed to loose weight and eating less soy I knew would contribute some to that goal.

Now, having said that I did loose weight, I wouldn't say significantly much more than in my past slim down periods with soy but I did notice a difference not only in my rate of fat loss but in my body emotions as well. In general, since I've stopped eating soy I feel much lighter and more dexterous in my body and haven't been prone to seasonal mood swings as I have in the past. The second thing is that my acne has significantly lessened. I've read further that acne can be a side affect in some people from superdosing on soy which would make perfect sense in my case since around the time I became vegan 7 years ago is when I started to have a reoccurence of adult acne.

So, those are my conclusions but again, that's just me. I imagine if you tried the no soy diet for yourself you may have a very different experience but I will continue the diet as long as I see fit for my health. Now I just have to find an adequate way to bulk up without the soy!

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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:55 pm 
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Rabbit
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There are downsides to tofu, though I am sure your PT was not talking about what I am going to discuss. He probably read about the "estrogen" in soy and how it prevents you from building muscle. That is generally BS. The problem with soy is that it, like dairy, nuts, and wheat, is a common allergen. That means that many people are allergic and even more are sensitive to it, usually without knowing it. Eating soy at every meal, every day can make someone sensitive (even allergic) and hence why it should, as with most foods, be used to complement your diet not act as the foundation of your diet.


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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:57 pm 
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Gorilla

Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:57 pm
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Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Have you ever read Jack Norris' blog? He is a registered dietician and I think the president or founder or cofounder or something of Vegan Outreach. I know he has an article in there on soy and links to other articles regarding medical research. Most of the research that has been done apparently has been performed by injecting megadoses of soy into animals. That's not even remotely close to a normal human eating a little tofu and having some soy milk now and then.


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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:29 pm 
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Gorilla
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I will say what I have always said: the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". Until the day I see a credible, well-constructed study showing any significant effect of soy (this applies both to the "soy shrinks your nads" and "soy cures cancer" camps), I will continue to view it as a healthy, inexpensive, nutritionally-dense food that is an asset to my diet as a vegan, and nothing more.


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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:36 am 
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Rabbit
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Location: Northern CA
A friend of mine.... Ted who help start the Soy Silk co. who currently owns WholeSoy & Co. http://www.wholesoyco.com - he also makes soy milk for Trader J's. He Informed me about the processing of soy, and 2 ways soy is processed & produced. He mentioned one being much better than the other.... a cold rinsing process that doesnt happen with a lot of soy.
Also a lot of studies done on soy that claim it to be so bad, are backed & funded by the dairy industry, according to Mark Messina, Ph.D., M.S., executive director of the Soy Nutrition Institute.
Dr. Messina has devoted his time primarily to the study of the health effects of soy foods and soybean isoflavones.
I saw his speak at a Cancer Project Nutritional symposium you can see his presentation here http://www.cancerproject.org/webcasts/bios/messina.php
He mentions it being good for men- less prostate cancer.
Dr. Messina is the co-author of three books, The Simple Soybean and Your Health, The Vegetarian Way, and The Dietitian’s Guide to Vegetarian Diets: Issues and Applications.


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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:49 am 
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Stegosaurus
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Vegans whine about how annoying the "protein question" is after the umpteenth time, but I think the soy thing is worse. I was chatting it up last night with a woman I've been talking to from an online dating thing last night. She mentioned that she avoids soy as it makes her break out in pimples. I mentioned that I love soy. She told me about some actor who is convinced that it gave him man boobs..........groan. She was joking and trying to get a rise out of me, but boy are comments like that are just old.

BTW, very few men have gynostemia, most who think they have it are just overweight. Most are "cured" by eating less and moving more.

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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:16 am 
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Elephant

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:48 pm
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden.
Ari Gold (or I mean the actor who plays him) claims he got man boobs from soy.

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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:25 am 
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Stegosaurus
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bull shit

the phytoestrogens in soy are weaker than endongenous estrogens, in fact they block a persons bodily estrogens at the receptor sites.. if anything soy would protect a man from estrogen.

Actors often talk about what they don't know about

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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:43 am 
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Rabbit
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xjohanx wrote:
Ari Gold (or I mean the actor who plays him) claims he got man boobs from soy.

If you actually read the articles where he talks about it, he says he drank twelve glasses a day! That's 1200 extra calories! I highly doubt his man boobs are the result of hormones and more the result of too much intake with too little output.


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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:26 pm 
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Elephant
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Location: Turku, Finland
damdaman wrote:
I don't believe a there's ever been a single study that showed that people who eat soy regularly have lower testosterone.

I actually found one T-Nation article which had "scientific evidence" that it lowers testosterone.

However, when I run a search on the journal the source was published, I found out that there has never been an article with that name, and I also checked that no scientist with same last name has published anything about soy in that magazine. Ever.

If you guys find articles which claim such things, I heavily recommend that you find the original study and first check a) that it exists b) the article actually claims what it should and c) that the amounts used to get statistically significant results are from this world (i.e. you should drink 16-20 litres of soymilk per day to get too much phytoestrogens).

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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:32 pm 
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Stegosaurus
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I collect anti-FUD articles about soy in a special section on my blog:
http://beforewisdom.com/blog/?cat=23

One of the articles reported on a study where they actually TRIED to produce feminizing effects (mild) with soy using healthy young volunteers. They used isolates and only got to the edge of slight effects, feeding the volunteers massive amounts of the isolates. They couldn't have even come close if they used actual soy foods.

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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:46 am 
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Finch
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Location: Mesa, Arizona
You know I recently became a Vegan a little over a week ago, and I personally haven't had any Tofu as of yet, then while I was looking up a recipe online for pizza I saw a recipe for creating Vegan Manicotti. After clicking on the link I discovered that the main ingredient in this was 1lb of Tofu, after seeing this I decided to do some research on how healthy Tofu was for you. After reading a few seemingly biased websites about the dangers of Tofu I ran across a few unbiased sources that concluded that there are many negatives in large doses. It seems that the recommended dose is 25 grams, and what I took from the research is that its more or less appropriate for women then men. You will be fine and by my guess much healthier if you consume it daily in small doses.


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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:01 am 
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Rabbit
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I wonder how many of these studies are done using GM soy or organic soy?

Ive never met anyone that has had soy related health issues but everyone on here knows someone with health issues related to animal products.

Lucky for us there is zillions of plant based protein options. Fruits, veg, grains,oats, beans, corn, nuts, seeds etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:53 pm 
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Manatee
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AHealthyVegan wrote:
When I asked him where he had read this information about Tofu he chuckled and said it was just common knowledge about soy and tofu.
I would be extremely wary about anyone who recommends something based on "common knowledge." Remember, "common knowledge" says you can "catch a cold" just by being cold, and that fat can turn into muscle. You wouldn't trust a trainer who told you that your muscles will turn into fat, would you? Probably not.

If you like the trainer but want to push him against his idiotic view of soy, show him Muscular Development magazine...try to find December 2009 issue (if you need help, I can get it for you). For those that don't know, MD is the "no-bull" magazine. They will give information on absolutely everything that's related to health, fat loss, and muscle gain. This includes talk about steroids. When a magazine that gives tips on steroid use says that soy is 100% fine and then shows all the medical research to back it up...I tend to believe that.

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 Post subject: Re: Tofu Bad for Men?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:56 pm 
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Elephant
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Here with all the evidence I seen and research this is what is the truth about soy based on what I have seen.

First Dairy industry needs to promote bad things about soy because it is stealing a large part of their market. Put it out in the media and scare people.

Second Your trainner can't avoid soy really because if he eats meat there is a good chance that the feed those animals were given was soy.

Third
Some claims of hexane is used to process soy. I am not sure how much of it is still in it and or which brands use it.

GMO Soy is different for the most part than Organic Soy. Organic Soy unless contaminated is not genetically altered so that in it self is a big difference.

Isolated Soy Protein actually raises Insulin like growth factor which dairy is blamed to do. Do a search for Dr. McDougall and Soy.

Finally Okinawans are one of the larges consumers of tofu and soy products and they are some of the longest lived people and last time I saw there are still men there.

The problem I even saw with my girlfriends nutrition textbooks is they say eat more dairy and eggs and on the next page they state the most allergenic foods are eggs dairy... and so on. A lot of the data is tested much like a NYC horse with blinders. People pick at one specific thing and say either how wonderful or how bad it is but now one looks at the overall picture. Not to say everyones body reacts differently to foods. For some Soy will empower them and for others it will harm them. Things are exactly as they are unclear. Because we are different individuals who don't know how our body will react long term to certain foods. Basically we don't have a diet for each person's genetic code.

Switch it up there is plenty of food out their to try. Soy is not the only food on the planet. Look for whole foods for better nutrition.

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