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I have a BIG problem. rugby/getting big/and sorta marathons.


Jason X
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So, I'll try to make this brief, since I tend to get long winded.

 

I am eating a lot in order to bulk for rugby. I am also training to be fast and explosive. I'm quick and nimble for a 6 footer, but I'm small. I've done a lot to bulk up in the last two months since I started trying, but my big mouth and desire to do awesome things has me in a bit of a pickle.

 

I am also signed up to do the MC200, which is a 200 mile run from Madison to Chicago. Don't worry, it's a relay. That'll have me running 38.75 miles in about 24 or so hours. 8 miles, break for a few hours, 4 miles, break, 6 miles, break, you get the idea. 6 legs. BUT, that means I need to train some distance (even if it is short distance x reps...)

 

So, is a day or two of running (6-10 miles) going to be enough? Once it gets nice out I'll start running to work and then home (4 miles each way) which will give me the two a days I'll need to be able to run the intervals needed for the relay.

 

But I dont want to lose mass or explosiveness in my running. If I just up the food (again) and train all 3 things over the course of the week, Ill be straight, right? I currently do 3x week lifting 2x week running intervals/plyo/etc (typical rugby practice) and will do a day or two of long runs.

 

Is that all sorts of wrong?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Jason,

 

I've run 3 marathons and used to be a personal trainer, so I think I can help

 

I'm assuming this will be the first endurance run you've ever done.

 

It IS possible to train for both, as long as you're okay with only really being good at one - and it sounds like your priority is rugby. And in fact, your plyo & interval runs WILL help you with running economy for the distance event.

 

I would do ONE long run per week, and have the other running day be mid-length. I would also add a 3rd running day for a short run. Consistency is just as important as distance. For all 3 of those runs, go SLOWER than the pace you plan to run the actual event. You're already training for speed - these days are for building endurance. If you go too fast and your heart rate is too high, you will actually hurt your endurance training.

 

I don't know how much time you have until the event, or how far your longest run has been up until now, so here's a general plan...

 

- When both cardio & strength occur on the same day, do cardio FIRST)

- Regarding runs, never do 2 hard days in a row. Hard = distance or speed. The plan below is hard-easy-hard-easy-hard-easy-off:

 

SATURDAY - LONG RUN

SUNDAY - Short & Easy recovery run + Strength [or make-up long run if Sat weather is bad, etc. If today ends up being your long run, skip tomorrow's intervals and do a short run instead, then continue with the rest of the week as planned. NEVER try to "make up" missed workouts.]

MONDAY - Intervals/plyo

TUESDAY - Mid-length run + Strength

WEDNESDAY - Intervals/plyo

THURSDAY - Short run + Strength

FRIDAY - OFF

 

For the long runs, you'll want to increase the distance by approximately 10%/week. For example:

Week 1 - 5 miles

2 - 6 miles

3 - 7 miles

4 - 8 miles

5 - 9 miles

6 - 10miles

7 - 6 miles

8 - 12 miles

9 - 10 miles

10 - 14 miles

11 - 10 miles

12 - 16 miles

13 - 10 miles

14 - 18 miles

15 - 10 miles

16 - 20 miles

17 - 10 miles

18 - 20 miles

19 - 10 miles

20 - 22 miles

21 - 10 miles

22 - 22 miles

23 - 10 miles

24 - 8 miles

25 - 6 miles

26 - 6 miles

 

This is the most conservative (read: injury-preventing) plan. If you have less time than that, it would look more like this:

 

Week 1 - 5 miles

2 - 6 miles

3 - 7 miles

4 - 8 miles

5 - 9 miles

6 - 10miles

7 - 12 miles

8 - 10 miles

9 - 14 miles

10 - 16 miles

11 - 18 miles

12 - 20 miles

13 - 10 miles

14 - 6 miles

 

 

If you have even LESS time than that, do not alter the schedule, but stop building distance sooner so you max out at 18 or 16 instead. It is safer to do one very long run on less training, than it is to train at too high a level and then run a significant distance.

 

In the last 2-4 weeks leading up to the event, drop back on distance, and cut out ALL strength and speed work. Preferably, the taper would be 4 weeks, but 2 weeks is the minimum. This is the time when your body not only heals from all the training, but actually continues to get stronger as it heals. DO NOT SKIP THE TAPER PERIOD. YOU RISK INJURY IF YOU DO!

 

 

Good luck, and feel free to ask me more questions as you go!

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WOW! thanks for the in depth reply, but I should have clarified. It isn't a marathon. It's a relay ultra race. From Madison to Chicago. It'll have me running 6 intervals of 4-7 miles a piece over the course of 30 or so hours. It works out to 37.75 miles over the whole race, but it's a "run an hour, take 3 hours off, run 35 minutes, take 4 hours off", etc. So, I think the shorter (under 10 miles, definitely) runs with more frequency is going to be the way to tackle this. not getting stiff, and eating enough are going to be the hard parts, definitely.

 

The big issue is that I have a 3 day rugby tournament the weekend after, which I kinda need to be in good shape for. SO, it's all too much to ask of myself, but I'll work it out and be fine.

 

thanks for the plan, and I'll be sure to ask questions as they arise. Oh, it's 3 months away, by the way.

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If I just up the food (again) and train all 3 things over the course of the week, Ill be straight, right?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "straight" but there are complications regarding the combination of endruance training and muscle strenght/volume. Trying to put it simply mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) regulates your muscles adjustment to strenght training meaning that heavy ass training results in translation of mTOR. When you do endurance training the different metabolism that is demanded results in activation of AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK). So far this isn't a problem right? Wrong. AMPK effects a substrate called TSC1/2 which in turn has a negative influence on mTOR (and your protein synthesis). Allthough there probably are ways to minimize the "damage" simply increasing your food intake won't cut it.

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If I just up the food (again) and train all 3 things over the course of the week, Ill be straight, right?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "straight" but there are complications regarding the combination of endruance training and muscle strenght/volume. Trying to put it simply mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) regulates your muscles adjustment to strenght training meaning that heavy ass training results in translation of mTOR. When you do endurance training the different metabolism that is demanded results in activation of AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK). So far this isn't a problem right? Wrong. AMPK effects a substrate called TSC1/2 which in turn has a negative influence on mTOR (and your protein synthesis). Allthough there probably are ways to minimize the "damage" simply increasing your food intake won't cut it.

 

 

uhhh. words.

 

sorry dude. that is entirely over my head. I'll keep doing what I've been doing. It seems to be working.

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For soreness/stiffness, obviously you need your electrolytes and protein, but I STRONGLY recommend black cherry juice - it is a natural anti-inflammatory. It definitely works for me.

 

A glass a day should do it, or I think it's actually cheaper to buy it concentrated and mix it with water or seltzer.

 

Or vodka

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I'll keep doing what I've been doing. It seems to be working.

 

If it's working, why even ask about it?

 

 

the original post is a few weeks old, johan.

 

Ellie, I will look into this black cherry juice concentrate!

 

and Mary, I'm not very familiar with crossfit, but as I understand it, it's more of a circuit training. My interest is piqued. I'll see what I can find about it.

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Geeze, I joined this forum because it was less hate-filled than other vegan groups/forums.

 

I'm starting to reconsider that decision.

 

 

ellie, it's not all haters. we usually get along. seems like only a couple people stir the pot. and they make themselves known pretty quickly.

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Geeze, I joined this forum because it was less hate-filled than other vegan groups/forums.

 

I'm starting to reconsider that decision.

 

Big decision to make, life-changing stuff, maybe you should have thought about it longer? I mean seriously, now you sit here with a username on a forum that is more hate-filled than other vegan groups/forum, big stuff.

 

BTW, people throw around the word "hate" way too much. I see no hating anywhere in this thread. The functional movement thing is a joke on the cost of people like this

 

http://www.thefatsolutions.com/img/userPics/1246455012_2754.jpg

 

and others who use the word way too much.

It really has nothing to do with hate and how you confuse the two is beyond me.

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Geeze, I joined this forum because it was less hate-filled than other vegan groups/forums.

 

I'm starting to reconsider that decision.

 

Big decision to make, life-changing stuff, maybe you should have thought about it longer? I mean seriously, now you sit here with a username on a forum that is more hate-filled than other vegan groups/forum, big stuff.

 

BTW, people throw around the word "hate" way too much. I see no hating anywhere in this thread. The functional movement thing is a joke on the cost of people like this

 

...and others who use the word way too much.

It really has nothing to do with hate and how you confuse the two is beyond me.

 

 

Once again, you are looking for something to attack instead of having a real conversation.

 

I get that you have your little jokes, but you were attacking someone who was talking about a serious personal goal/endeavor, because, what, you feel entitled to determine what words other people are allowed to use in order to be valid as human beings?

 

Your brand of "humor" has no place in my world.

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Humor's got a place like all things.

Be aware of the pain it can sometimes bring.

A joke to you might not be so funny,

so take the time and think it out before you open up your mouth.

 

I can't believe the things we say.

A cutting word can ruin days.

I can't believe the things we say.

Now I wish I hadn't spoke.

Can't you learn to take a fucking joke?

 

We say things we don't mean but friends understand.

Strength and humor don't always go hand in hand.

A joke to you might not be so funny,

so take the time and think it out before you open up your mouth.

 

I can't believe the things we say.

A cutting word can ruin days.

I can't believe the things we say.

Now I wish I hadn't spoke.

Can't you learn to take a fuckin' joke?

 

But no ones laughing.

I wish I could crack a smile, but I can't.

I know he's just a fucking jerk.

But jerks hurt too.

And I'm not that cool that I can laugh.

I see because it's happened to me and I think I was an asshole when I said what I said.

It's just a sick sense of humor rolls around in my head.

Cause we've had our fun at your expense and that's wrong.

And we know it.

You said we were friends.

For friendship's sake.

Let's give it a break.

 

I can't believe the things we say.

A cutting word can ruin days.

I can't believe the things we say.

Now I wish I hadn't spoke.

Can't you learn to take a fuckin' joke?!

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Johan just said that because he happened to have just put a new quote from me in his signature. That quote was in response to people being elitist and extremist about functional training, it wasn't anti-functional training. He wasn't trying to stir the pot.

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Once again, you are looking for something to attack instead of having a real conversation.

 

No not at all but you seem to do. You were the one who basically called me a hater for no apparent reason (alternatively a very stupid reason).

 

I get that you have your little jokes, but you were attacking someone who was talking about a serious personal goal/endeavor, because, what, you feel entitled to determine what words other people are allowed to use in order to be valid as human beings?

 

I haven't attacked anyone in this thread in any way. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to judge and def chill out a good bit. Cubby made a really fun statement which I recently placed as my signature because me and others thought it was really funny. I've been telling the quote to all of my real life friend and everyone is laughing about it, even crossfit people I know. You seem to be the only one who doesn't get the funny part. If you first read the thread where he made the quote, the reread this one you would probably see why you are overreacting.

 

Your brand of "humor" has no place in my world.

 

That's cool, your lack of humor has no place in mine

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I haven't attacked anyone in this thread in any way. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to judge and def chill out a good bit. Cubby made a really fun statement which I recently placed as my signature because me and others thought it was really funny. I've been telling the quote to all of my real life friend and everyone is laughing about it, even crossfit people I know. You seem to be the only one who doesn't get the funny part. If you first read the thread where he made the quote, the reread this one you would probably see why you are overreacting.

 

I'm sure I would have laughed at the original thread, considering Cubby has a more pleasant attitude.

 

Trying to prove to me that you have a sense of humor is equivalent to trying to prove that you have style. You're no judge of your own.

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I'm sure I would have laughed at the original thread, considering Cubby has a more pleasant attitude.

 

Trying to prove to me that you have a sense of humor is equivalent to trying to prove that you have style. You're no judge of your own.

 

Yeah he's a real sweetheart.

I'm actually not trying to prove that I have a sense of humor, if I tried to "prove" anything it was that Cubby made a funny comment which would be implying that Cubby has a sense of humor. All I did was requote it and to my Swedish speaking friends I did the translation but still gave Cubbydude the creds. And don't fladder yourself thinking that I'm trying to prove anything to you. You probably wish I did (it's okay, most girls do ) but I just simply don't. I could not care less what you think of me. I've encountered enough people to know when a person is a bitch, and on those I don't waste more time than I already have here. Over and out.

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...And don't fladder yourself thinking that I'm trying to prove anything to you. You probably wish I did (it's okay, most girls do ) but I just simply don't. I could not care less what you think of me. I've encountered enough people to know when a person is a bitch, and on those I don't waste more time than I already have here. Over and out.

 

Wow, arrogant, AND name-calling. Projecting much?

 

Go ahead, have the last word if you like. I'm happy to let the rest of the forum be a judge of my character.

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Is that it? Can this crap be finished now? Thanks everyone for your help. Johan, sorry the words you typed didn't make sense me. Chalk it up to my own inadequacy. I'm ok with that.

 

This is all really silly. I appreciate everyone trying to help. I could have done without the rest, though.

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