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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:59 am 
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Gorilla
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ronnie kray wrote:
It’s strange to me that everyone makes apologies for attacking the sponsors, but not for attacking people. Everyone acknowledges lesnar went too far with insulting a beer company, but some are still trying to defend his disrespect of REAL PEOPLE! If anything it should be the other way around. Why do the sponsors deserve respect and not the fighters? Is it the money again? I’m sorry, but I just can’t understand how making massive amounts of money will ever make it ok to disrespect fans, fighters, and the sport as a whole.



Simple. Mir talked mad amounts of shit leading up to the fight, beyond even the normal pre-fight trash talk. Mir was acting like a dick for weeks leading up to the fight, plain and simple. Lesnar was fed up with it and retaliated. Lesnar disrespecting him in return does not hurt the company in any way. As far as the fans, they were booing him, he flipped them the bird. Not that big a deal.
Insulting the sponsor could have potentially cost the entire company thousands of dollars. It didn't, obviously but the potential is there. Again, the bottom line is all about money.


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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:22 pm 
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Gorilla
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UGH, I would expect this type on nonsense at sherdog, but not here.

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You can disagree with Brock's past-fight antics if you like, but the Mir nuthugging on this thread makes you look ridiculous.

Now I know that sherdog mentality has invaded these boards. “nuthugging”? … please. I know you’ve run out of arguments when you stoop to using this term invented by jr high keyboard warriors.

Quote:
Wasn't the Mir loss Brock's second mma fight?

Yes, exactly. That’s one of the points of all of this. It was only his second fight. What the hell did he do to deserve a fight against a top 10 opponent? Just more of the shortcuts he got blessed with b/c of his fame. He should’ve been working his way up like every other fighter. oh, of course, brock is special. he doesn't have to wait in line, he can skip ahead of everyone esle. who's the "nuthugger" here?

Quote:
I also don't understand why you are complaining about someone's size in a weight-limited category

because all the other weight classes have a max of 20 lbs before you step up to the next division. Heavyweights have a 60lb(!) space to work with. sasquatch lesnar is one of the only fighters who actually has to cut weight to make it down to the 265 lb weight limit. That means he comes into the fight outweighing some opponents by up to 50 lbs. A fighter could come in 230 lbs with no weight cutting, and have to face lesnar, who because he cut weight, by the night of the fight weighs 280 lbs.

to give you an idea, this is the equivalent of Mac Danzig fighting Wanderlei Silva, or Rampage Jackson!

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Simple. Mir talked mad amounts of shit leading up to the fight, beyond even the normal pre-fight trash talk. Mir was acting like a dick for weeks leading up to the fight, plain and simple. Lesnar was fed up with it and retaliated. Lesnar disrespecting him in return does not hurt the company in any way. As far as the fans, they were booing him, he flipped them the bird. Not that big a deal.

I love how you make it seem that Mir was the only one doing the talking, as if lesnar was all class thru the whole thing. trash talking is a two way street, why no mention of any of the idiotic trash lesnar was spewing as if he was channeling the glory days of pro wrestling. So could you give me an example of what Mir said that warrants this type of behavior? And why brock should be immune from this type of trash talk? Are his feeling more fragile than every other fighters? :*(

Awww…. did poor brock get his precious feeling hurt when the crowd booed him? Well he just needs to grow some tougher skin, because lots of fighters have to go thru that.

I can think of several times (like when Americans go fight in the UK, or the events that are held on military bases and a fighter has to face an ex-marine) where fighters get booed mercilessly, but end up winning the crowd over by showing respect and humility. In other words, being a professional, something beyond the grasp of brock’s dumb macho high school jock way of thinking.

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Insulting the sponsor could have potentially cost the entire company thousands of dollars. It didn't, obviously but the potential is there. Again, the bottom line is all about money.

The end always justifies the means then huh. Profit before people. Wonderful.

I contend that there is a way to make money and show sportmanship at the same time, the way champions like Anderson Silva, GSP, Fedor Emilianenko, and Lyoto Machida do.

Even now, brock is getting special treatment. Because if anybody else pulled a stunt like that, nobody would be defending it.

There are no excuses for the way brock acted. The problem is not the fans booing or fighters talking trash, its brock’s warped hulk smash mentality. And people defending him are only encouraging him to do the exact same thing next time.

Geez, seems i'm alone here. I really can’t believe they’re so many Vegan fans of this meathead (no pun intended), lol :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:17 pm 
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Rabbit
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ronnie kray wrote:
Now I know that sherdog mentality has invaded these boards. “nuthugging”? … please. I know you’ve run out of arguments when you stoop to using this term invented by jr high keyboard warriors.

I didn't realise you were even making arguments. What exactly is it you think you are arguing for? Brock to come in lighter next fight? Brock to refuse opportunities that are given him?

If you have a problem with the way he advanced to the title then your problem is with Dana and the UFC, not with Brock. There isn't a fighter in the world who would turn down a title shot. Especially one they believe they can win. The fact that he has won the title and humiliated your "more skilled" fighter shows that those who decided to fast-track him were correct. The quality in the UFC heavyweight division is terrible.

ronnie kray wrote:
That means he comes into the fight outweighing some opponents by up to 50 lbs. A fighter could come in 230 lbs with no weight cutting, and have to face lesnar, who because he cut weight, by the night of the fight weighs 280 lbs.

Ah, now I understand. Thank you for the lesson in weight categories :?

But ideally, what is it you would like big bad Brock to do? What can he do to make you happy? Not use his weight advantage? Let your more skilled fighter up instead of sitting on top of him?

ronnie kray wrote:
I can think of several times (like when Americans go fight in the UK, or the events that are held on military bases and a fighter has to face an ex-marine) where fighters get booed mercilessly, but end up winning the crowd over by showing respect and humility. In other words, being a professional

And I can think of many other times where this didn't happen. Witness model professional Marvin Hagler's treatment in London.

ronnie kray wrote:
Geez, seems i'm alone here. I really can’t believe they’re so many Vegan fans of this meathead (no pun intended), lol :lol:

Who said anything about being a fan of Brock?

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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:53 am 
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I am no fan of brock. But I would not pass up the gifts that the UFC has given him. I want him to lose so bad, but I dont think that there is presently anyone besides perhaps Fedor who is going to get the upper hand. I think that brock is going to dictate the fights through grinding and pounding . I could be wrong and I hope that I am.


I think flipping off the crowd was low end. I dont think that anyone expects more from him. I dont think that anyone is necessary excusing his conduct, they are just allowing the fact that he is a dumb wild animal. I mean if a lion suddening ate someone in the octogon we would be too shocked.

I agree that perhaps even his large hands might be a product of growth hormone. Surely the rest of his body appears to be along with his head. He has admitted that he did very poorly in school or structured enviroments, and just couldnt wait to go one on one physically. He is a primitive thinking person. I think that he is too suited for the violence of the octogon.

HOw long til crocop runs back to europe after seeing what brock did to Mir. I just remember what fedor did to crocop when crocop tried to kick him. Brock would throw him around like a rag doll.

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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:59 pm 
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Gorilla
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Ah, now I understand. Thank you for the lesson in weight categories :?

I can’t tell if you’re being serious or sarcastic, LOL. But umm… you’re welcome.

Quote:
I didn't realise you were even making arguments. What exactly is it you think you are arguing for? Brock to come in lighter next fight? Brock to refuse opportunities that are given him?

If you have a problem with the way he advanced to the title then your problem is with Dana and the UFC, not with Brock. There isn't a fighter in the world who would turn down a title shot. Especially one they believe they can win.

Sweet baby jesus, i’m just repeating myself now. Maybe you should re-read my other posts. but again… the problem is with the way brock treats these opportunities that have been gifted to him. for the limited amount of experience and skill he has, the UFC bends over backwards for the guy. you would think he would do his best to represent the sport in a positive way instead of making it a joke. This ties in to the next question.

Quote:
But ideally, what is it you would like big bad Brock to do? What can he do to make you happy?

Egads man, its like i’m talking to a wall. It should be clear what I want brock to do by now. Be a professional, show some respect, show some class, stop being a disrespectful douche. Stop being a pro wrestler and start being an MMA fighter. Stop complaining he doesn’t get enough money. I don’t really care that he dissed the sponsors, Bud Light. I don’t drink and don’t give a damn about their company. It’s the nerve of him complaining about money, when by his 3rd fight he was already getting paid better than fighters who are in the Hall of Fame.

I’ll just repost this quote that sums it up.
“We've spent a long time building a reputation of sportsmanship and camaraderie.
It was disappointing to see Lesnar go out there, both prefight and postfight, and kind of ham up the WWE antics and display this negative persona. It's not something a lot of us want to be associated with.”


Quote:
The quality in the UFC heavyweight division is terrible.

hmmm.... So in your opinion, it’s not that brock is so great, it’s that his competion is just bad?

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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:03 pm 
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Gorilla
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pazios2002 wrote:
I think flipping off the crowd was low end. I dont think that anyone expects more from him. I dont think that anyone is necessary excusing his conduct, they are just allowing the fact that he is a dumb wild animal. I mean if a lion suddening ate someone in the octogon we would be too shocked.

LOL! :lol:

Interesting point. Maybe you guys are right. perhaps the problem is mine for expecting too much from him. After all, it’s not like he really loves the sport. He’s only turned to MMA because pro football turned him down (at least they wouldn’t put up with his shenanigans, no matter how much money he brought to the table) and he long ago pissed off all his connections in pro wrestling. So for someone who is only in it for fame and money, I guess I should expect him to be a dick.

And hey, maybe he’ll quit MMA, just like he did with pro wrestling and football, when he stops getting his way.

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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:41 am 
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Manatee

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No worries. Shane Carwin will take out Lesnar after he takes out Cain.

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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:48 am 
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ronnie kray wrote:
I can’t tell if you’re being serious or sarcastic, LOL.

I know you can't.

ronnie kray wrote:
Sweet baby jesus, i’m just repeating myself now. Maybe you should re-read my other posts. but again…

I think I can see why this thread is mainly composed of posts from yourself with no responses. You might want to treat other posters with a bit more respect. People have spent a long time building a reputation of sportsmanship and camaraderie on this forum, it's disappointing to see you display this negative persona. It's not something a lot of us want to be associated with.

You have posted saying Brock isn't respectful enough, I get that. I'll touch on it in a minute. But you also posted complaining about his weight advantage and the opportunities afforded to him. I was pointing out that those complaints seem misdirected.

I happen to agree with him regarding pay in the UFC. The issue for me isn't how much Brock makes, but how little the other fighters get. This is a direct result of UFC anti-competition practice. They are the only game in town, so they pay peanuts. Compare the UFC fighters to that of the top boxers. I have a friend who fought for the UFC when they came to the UK, he got paid less than a small-hall boxer in the UK.

I don't think that a fighter has to represent the UFC in any way. I want to know who the best fighters are. I want to see them fight each other. I couldn't give an arse whether they don the company tie, wear a smile and spout the corporate line. Maybe we have a difference in outlook there.

Brock doesn't owe anybody a favour. UFC elevated him to main event and title status for money and to advance their profile, not because Dana and Brock are golfing buddies.

As for flipping off the fans, if you go along to view a sportsman and hurl abuse at him, don't run crying to your mother when he dishes some back. I see this all the time with soccer fans when a footballer has the temerity to reply to their chants with a gesture. We want our streams of abuse to flow in one direction.

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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:19 am 
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Gorilla
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Quote:
I think I can see why this thread is mainly composed of posts from yourself with no responses. You might want to treat other posters with a bit more respect. People have spent a long time building a reputation of sportsmanship and camaraderie on this forum, it's disappointing to see you display this negative persona. It's not something a lot of us want to be associated with.

mostly posts from me with no responses? This thread didn’t start last week. Maybe you only come in this thread once in a blue moon, but I think you should review the first 42 pages of this thread, not just these last 2. You’ll see I’m hardly dominating the discussion here. you should come around more often, not just when brock fights. we have a great time here discussing the sport.

And I don’t see how anything I said has been disrespectful to anyone on this board. I haven’t been namecalling or using profanity against anyone in this thread. On the other hand, you did call me a nuthugger. which is ok, I wasn’t really offended. I actually thought it was kinda funny :D In the same way, I tried to be funny in return by posting the facepalm. Hope you didn’t take offense to that.

Quote:
I happen to agree with him regarding pay in the UFC. The issue for me isn't how much Brock makes, but how little the other fighters get. This is a direct result of UFC anti-competition practice. They are the only game in town, so they pay peanuts. Compare the UFC fighters to that of the top boxers. I have a friend who fought for the UFC when they came to the UK, he got paid less than a small-hall boxer in the UK.

On this we can agree. UFC has a monopoly on MMA at the moment, which is evident on how many other organizations have gone under. Just today it was announced that Affliction was folding. It’s almost like a mobster’s way of doing business. Anyone tries to compete, run them out of town! They really have MMA on lockdown, and it results on them paying a few fighters well and most fighters a small amount. I believe this has something to do with why Roger Huerta is not renewing his contract with the UFC. Wow, we found some common ground.

Quote:
I don't think that a fighter has to represent the UFC in any way. I want to know who the best fighters are. I want to see them fight each other. I couldn't give an arse whether they don the company tie, wear a smile and spout the corporate line. Maybe we have a difference in outlook there.

Brock doesn't owe anybody a favour. UFC elevated him to main event and title status for money and to advance their profile, not because Dana and Brock are golfing buddies.

I agree with the last sentence. obviously it’s all motivated by money, certainly not by what’s fair. on the rest of the paragraph, Yes that’s just where you and I differ in opinion. Of course nobody HAS to be respectful, but most realize they should be respectful and do so. And brock has even more reason to be respectful than most, after being given so many breaks. I find his behavior to be totally embarrassing to the sport, reflects the mind of a thugish school yard bully, and shows a complete lack of class that a champion should display. And yes, I think that’s important. You don’t find it to be a big deal, and I do. I guess we are destined to disagree on that topic.

Quote:
As for flipping off the fans, if you go along to view a sportsman and hurl abuse at him, don't run crying to your mother when he dishes some back. I see this all the time with soccer fans when a footballer has the temerity to reply to their chants with a gesture. We want our streams of abuse to flow in one direction.

I won’t pretend to know much about how things work in football , or any other sport for that matter. MMA is the only sport I follow these days. I guess we’ve been spoiled with great sportsmanship in MMA. But that’s part of the reason I love it so much. Because we didn’t have the TO’s and the Ron Artest’s (I’m not even sure I’m getting those names right, that’s how little I know about other sports) and the divas that some sports do. That’s also why so many in the MMA community voiced their repulsion at lesnar’s classless behavior. I guess we’ve grown used to seeing the majority of fighters respect each other and show tremendous sportsmanship, and now it’s what we’ve come to expect. Is it wrong to expect that in a champion? I guess it is if the new champ is brock lesnar.

of course lesnar isn't the first to show bad sportsmanship, but the disrespectful ones have always been the exception to the rule. With brock leading the example, I can only hope it stays that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:35 pm 
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Gorilla
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Now maybe it's just me, but I think Barnett failing a test for steroids (for a SECOND time) and essentially putting an entire promotion out of business as a result is a lot worse for MMA than anything Lesnar could ever even conceive of doing... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:54 pm 
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Manatee

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Haha touche my man touche

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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:09 am 
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I thought it was Barnett’s 3rd time coming up positive for steroids. :shock: Man, imagine what’s going thru his head. Though Affliction was in trouble already, he must feel so guilty that he put the last nail in their coffin.

Yeah, lesnar is def not putting them out of business, he’s bringing money in. though I can’t say I agree with his methods, he’s def gonna be selling tickets.

I’m glad they are changing the main event for UFC 103. I have to admit I was a bit underwhelmed when they announced the Henderson / Franklin rematch. I wonder what they’re changing it to. Rumor has it that Vitor Belfort or Tito Ortiz might be added to the card… but against who?
hmmmmm... Image

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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:19 am 
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Rumor is henderson vs belfort and franklin vs ortiz. That is all through the grapevine so don't take it too much to heart. I do like those match ups better though.

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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:36 am 
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According to Franklin's camp as of like 2 days ago, they were unaware of the fight being changed or canceled. So if they're changing anything, they haven't bothered to tell Rich yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:32 am 
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BJJVegan wrote:
Rumor is henderson vs belfort and franklin vs ortiz. That is all through the grapevine so don't take it too much to heart. I do like those match ups better though.


Now I remember when Dana said that they were not in the Tito Ortiz business anymore. I guess he changed his mind.

So lets say that they are on. What are your picks?

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