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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:17 am 
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Gorilla
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This is exactly what i was thinking. I was a bit worried about doing a barbell centric routine what with me not having a partner to spot me. I thought it would be easier and more thourough if i used barbells. I am happy that you guys think so. Do either of you have perhaps a basic plan you would mind sharing with me as far as barbell workouts go? Also i was wondering how one decides how much weight he should pump? I also hear of warmup sets, could you explain these more fully?

Thanks all.


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:44 pm 
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I use a spotter since the risk of injury is so great and you need to go to failure to get optimal growth.

As a woman, I concentrate on the chest muscles that are visible. Therefore, I do incline bench and flat bench. For warm-up, I either do a few sets of push ups (12 to 15 reps, 1 or 2 sets) or do a couple of sets of lower weight bench presses at 12 to 15 reps.

I hope that helps.


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:24 pm 
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I'm gonna disagree with Lean & Green and DV and say dumbbells are better for chest growth in my opinion. I haven't benched since 98-99... not that I didn't like it, I liked it alot. My PB was 225x17 but my max was only 315. But just the opposite to Lean & Green, my chest didn't really start to grow until I started really working dumbbells. I feel that stabilizing a dumbbell with one hand is more difficult than stabilizing a barbell with two hands, and the increased stability must come from the recruitment and firing of more muscle fibers. If you recruit more fibers you have the opportunity to build more muscle.

A key point L&G stated was that when he switched. Probably more important than a single exercises is varying the exercises up.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:44 pm 
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Troy wrote:
I'm gonna disagree with Lean & Green and DV and say dumbbells are better for chest growth in my opinion. I haven't benched since 98-99... not that I didn't like it, I liked it alot. My PB was 225x17 but my max was only 315. But just the opposite to Lean & Green, my chest didn't really start to grow until I started really working dumbbells. I feel that stabilizing a dumbbell with one hand is more difficult than stabilizing a barbell with two hands, and the increased stability must come from the recruitment and firing of more muscle fibers. If you recruit more fibers you have the opportunity to build more muscle.

A key point L&G stated was that when he switched. Probably more important than a single exercises is varying the exercises up.


Thanks Troy. Also do you know of any good resources online that would help me put together a routine? Also as far as practical workout goes, the rock climbing gym has mainly dumbells so its just more advantageous.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:45 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:16 pm 
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Hey phillipeb. As stated, switching up is more beneficial than the exercise itself. Although I still feel that bbells helped me more so for some reason. I have no scientific evidence behind it and I already knew troy and some others praise dumbell work and enhancing the stabilizers but it just works for me.

Whatever the case, what's most important is that you incorporate some form of different training into your regimen and whether it be barbells, dumbells, cables, towel training, theraband or whatever the heck you have at your disposal, you will see a huge difference in results immediately.

So it seems that you have dumbells at your disposal, great, make use of them. I also see a barbell. So you have plenty of variations all over the place that you can harness. Start with something simple, go with the program for 6-8 weeks and then switch it up again.

So where could you begin? How much wait you should pump you ask? Yes it is beneficial to go to failure but that doesn't mean you cannot get a pump a good growth without a spotter. I had not one single spot for my first 4 months of training. Just now, I am starting to have a spot and for bbell bench only, nothing else, so it can be done.

so the rep ranges are something like this

15+ endurance
12-15 cutting
10-12 growth/cutting
8-10 growth
6-8 strength/growth
< 6 strength

So no matter what your goals are, say it is only growth (8-10 rep range), you should still go through a little bit of each of these ranges so that when you go back to the 8-10 range, you will be able to have more endurance and strength to accomplish as much as possible in an 8-10 range.

I personally feel it is good to start at a higher rep range to get a feel for lifting and to develop some endurance, as a base and primer to be able to do other rep ranges. Therefore, imo, i would recommend something in the 12-15 rep range for the start for a bit of time and then after some weeks to move to another range

something like this
weeks 1-5 ; 12 reps
weeks 5-7 ; 10 reps
weeks 7-14 ; 8 reps
weeks 14-17; 15 reps
weeks 17-22; 6 reps
weeks 22-32; 8 reps

Again that's just off the top of my head and you can toy with whatever feels right, as you can see, i made the 8 rep range the highest duration of training period for someone who wants bbing/growth as their primary focus.

Okay, a simple routine...

Firstly I would say to put the parts of your body that need the most work ahead of others. Examine your upper chest/middle/lower and decide which one is stronger than the other. Everyone is different. So if you have a weaker lower chest and a very strong upper chest, work out decline first, flat second and upper last. That's for you to decide

I'll give you some routines I performed this year just to get an idea of what you can do....
20 sets (plus pushups)
Flat Bench Dumbells (4 sets x 12 reps per set)
Incline Bench Dumbells (4 sets x 12 reps per set
Decline Bench Dumbells (4 sets x 12 reps per set)
Cable Crossovers (4 sets x 12 reps per set)
Incline Dumbell Flyes (4 sets x 12 reps per set)
Pushups (until failure, if any are possible)

Something I read once is that a good way to tell if you have exhausted your chest is to see if you can do a pushup after your routine. If you can't then you destroyed your chest and did more than enough.

Chest workout # 2
21 sets
Incline Barbell Bench (3 sets x 8 reps per set)
Flat Bench (3 sets x 8 reps per set)
Decline Bench (3 sets x 8 reps per set)
Incline Bench Dumbells (2 sets x 6-8 reps per set)
Flat Bench Dumbells (2 sets x 6-8 reps per set)
Decline Bench Dumbells (2 sets x 6-8 reps per set)
Pec Dec (3 sets x 8 reps per set) U probably don't have this, just substitute with flyes...
Incline Bench Cable Flyes (3 sets 8 reps per set)



Well that should be more than enough info to get you started somewhere on your own. Pm me if you have any questions or need more advice.. Train Hard!

Chest Day

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:33 pm 
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How is doing 2 more reps going to help you cut? Cutting is all in the diet.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:57 pm 
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Gorilla
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hmm do you think that it would create a balancing issue if i choose to only lift weights once a week. then do a bodyweight workout and a rockclimbing day?

I really about usable strength, even though egotistically i would like to look like some fitness model i have to be realistic as to what my body was made for. long distance endurance and agility.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:25 pm 
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P.s. thanks all for helping me evaluate my options. I have been working out constantly and improving because of your help. As some of you may have gleamed i am a bit weight assist-phobic. That is why i started my fitness experiment with a bodyweight workout. In two weeks-one month depending on when i reach my personal goals I will start incorporating weights. I just like to be prepared with everything possible to prepare with including ideas, routines, combination techniques.

any who thanks again.

just didn't want you guys to think i am like some of the forum members who ask for this advice and wont take it, rather than ask for the advice evaluate and then incorporate.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:18 pm 
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phillipeb wrote:
Image


As an update to this. I had a chance to check it out, and whats not shown in the picture is a giant box i think to do step ups. and a large jungle gym type thing where you can do cable pull downs and what not. it has 4 sides and each has attachments. so im assuming they have everything to put together an awesome program.

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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:11 pm 
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just started a weight lifting program, check out my training log and let me know what you think.

phil

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 Post subject: Re: Phils Accountability Before and After Photos
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:16 pm 
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so i have been working out for a month with weights. I enjoy it because i am sweating and feeling active but i get discouraged because i dont have a workout buddy. I was following a books program and while i showed some progress it was more advanced than i should have been tackling. I am tarting a more basic program on monday that also incorporates cardio. I gained a substantial amount of weight and my clothes do not fit me like they once did. It is easier when a program says day 3 hiit for 2o minutes or what not. for posterity sake im posting some of my pictures i took today for the ability to track progress. I rather like my after pictures on page one. i feel as though i have digressed since then even though i have kicked up my program a notch.


Image
legs. i never have take a picture of them before but i saw L&G and thought i would emulate.

Image
chest shot. my chest continues to be the thing that makes me the most unhappy hopefully starting this weights/cardio program will help.

Image
I think my arms have improved. On the last program my max reps weight kept on going up so fast that i couldnt lift the bar without making my hands raw even though i could handle the weight. I am assuming this is a genetic predisposition.
Image
my back seems to be filling out i can tell by how my shirts are starting to fit. I need to wear mediums now.

Image
shoulders and upper pec are getting some muscle. for a month id judge it not bad.

Image
i thought i would throw in a relaxed chest shot.

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 Post subject: Re: Phils Accountability Before and After Photos
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:57 pm 
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dude, though it's been a while since I looked at your older set of photos, I do not need to scroll back to see the fact that you've really made progress. Why in the world do you like the older sets of photos better? Clearly, you have put on a good amount of muscle and are looking more buff. There is no mistaking that! I especially like the way your chest is coming out in your front biceps pose.

You def have a body that is resembling that of a person who works out more so than the last shots.

I'm proud of you man and I want you to keep that focus going as it's paying off. Don't sell yourself short, you look GREAT! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Phils Accountability Before and After Photos
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:17 pm 
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Elephant
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What do you feel that you've done differently that made you digress a bit?

Here is my opionion with HIIT as well as that of my trainer.

HIIT is a good tool to bring in when you are close to your goal and have that last bit of fat too shed. In your case, your HIIT might be using muscle for fuel due to the intensity.

Some people do HIIT and they are able to still build and grow but some experience what you feel you did. You may want to experiment with low intensity cardio keeping your heartrate between 120 and 140 BPM perfomed after your weight training.

Also a BCAA supplement such as Xtend helps preserve lean muscle tissue during workouts so your body doesen't burn muscle for fuel. I know that you try to keep your diet and intake very pure so it might not be for you... but I never do a workout without it.

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 Post subject: Re: Phils Accountability Before and After Photos
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:31 pm 
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Gorilla
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Thank you L&G i really appreciate the compliments. I think because my BF went up that i am feeling less confident. I am above 170 now something i have not been for 3 years and while its a decent amount of muscle it is also fat as well. i felt the program because it was always touting max weight was not for me as i felt that perhaps without a workout buddy the system is dangerous. Also through out the program i kept modifying the reps and weight to get a better workout. So i thought perhaps a completely new routine.

VP: basically i am discouraged because i tried to rock climb the other day and could not do a basic path on the wall. It made me very depressed because i have this 'best is the only option' mentality so when i see an obvious shift from ability to inability it starts to rankle. I thought perhaps i could do more of a strength training workout. higher reps 75 percent max rep weight three sets. so that i can build a fondation for endurance.

It is really overwhelming being new to fitness and finding a program and just knowing it isnt a perfect fit. so im comparing things i have no real idea about. i feel that the basics were to basic and the medium level skills are more workout buddy centric.

Would either you or lean and green mind checking out the workout i was thinking about switching to tomorrow?

http://www.realjock.com/workout/1057/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

compared to my program now which i feel is comprehensive, but if i continue i have to change the dynamics between reps and weight.

Thanks for the advice about the hiit. the new program is asking for it so i thought i would do it. For me i pack on fat quickly and it is stubborn to get off. i have had the pectoral adipose tissue forever and i would love to just get rid of it.

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