Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:14 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:54 am
Posts: 164
Quote:
Is it true that (I've read this...) aspartame is chemically changed to formaldehyde at temps above 85 F.?



Most assuredly:

"It is concluded that aspartame consumption may constitute a hazard because of its contribution to the formation of formaldehyde adducts."

[Life Sci. (scientific journal), Vol. 63, No. 5, pp. 337+, 1998]


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:24 am 
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Elephant

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:02 am
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Yep, Pure Trim tastes very good. It blends very well.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:14 am 
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Manatee

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:12 am
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Are there any images of this amazing product - i really dunno what this is all about... :cry:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:27 pm 
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Rabbit
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Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:02 pm
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Location: currently cali-for-ni-A
can someone post the nutritional stats for the pure trim? thanks much 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:03 am 
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Stegosaurus

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
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hmm.. dont have a packet with me right now but it is something like 21 grams of protein, 17 grams of carbs and 8 grams of fat, per serving (i.e. per one filling shake) or thereabouts.

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People reviled today for their activism will be tomorrow's angels, and people respected today for their power will be tomorrow's demons. History will absolve us and condemn them. ~ Paul Watson


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:27 pm 
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Gorilla

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:51 pm
Posts: 594
Location: TX+CA > Migrated > India
To tease and give cg some grief:

Restaurant 1: Veg & Non Veg food
Dish X tastes better
(i.e. supporting a business that kills animals for food.. giving them "profits" even though you dont consume the animal products)

Restaurant 2: Veg Food Only
Dish X tastes fine. Not as good.
(i.e. supporting a business that promotes not touching animals for food.. live a cleaner life..)

2 Vegans. Both prefer going to opposite restaurants.

Who is a better "vegan" when promoting the "vegan" lifestyle?

... But then again it is highly debatable where the 'vegan' lifestyle ends.

It is easy to JUDGE others when things come to JUDGING oneself we have excuses and JUSTIFY our 'excuses' as being better than others.

PS: No offense.. he he.. there is always a gray area.. do what you feel you can.. and do it with a honest heart.. simple.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:08 pm 
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Elephant

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 2783
If they were equal distances then going to the veg restraunt would be the superior choice. At least you would be in like minded company, and not have to smell corpses. No veg place that served terrible food would stay in business, but if the food is really that bad then it probably is a buffet, and those win out every single time if you ask me.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:47 pm 
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Stegosaurus

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 3110
Crashnburn,

Just because something cant be practiced with absolutism or perfection that doesnt mean it shouldnt be practiced at all. And there are arguments to be made that can counter your arguemnts above (which IMO are valid by the way). If you create a demand for VEG options at non-veg restaurants or grocery stores, then economics dictates that supply will increase to meet the demand, and more mainstream places, rather than 'specialty' places, will carry vegan items. This is a good thing. So the "answer" to your particular example is not so clear cut.

What is clear cut though, my friend, is that your ova lacto vegetarianism in America is supporting the ruthless and unkind treatment of animals which you claim to revere, unless you are buying your dairy items from the kind of farm Will described in the vegan elitism thread.

You keep accusing vegans of JUDGING other ppl, bla bla bla and its getting old. People responded to you in great detail in the vegan elitism thread, and explained to you what the deal was, yet you chose to ignore them, or accuse them of "bashing you" and you still keep griping about how we vegans JUDGE others bla bla bla. I am not about to reiterate what was said there, but I will repost here what I posted there in my last post since you conveniently seem to be missing that thread:


"Crashnburn,

...And by the way, telling us to respect that action or activity of eating meat, especially factory farmed meat, is like me telling you to respect somebody else's action of physically harming another animal, human or non. Since when does freedom of choice include the moral right to cause suffering to other sentient and innocent beings? If you were walking down the street and saw somebody violently kicking a helpless kitten, would you judge that as "wrong" or "unethical" and interfere, or would you say "Well, buddy, that is your choice. Do the best you can. To each his own!", and merrily resume your walk, proud that you RESPECTED HIS "CHOICE"?

And I notice also that you havent responded to my question posed above, and I would really appreciate one: If you respect and revere cows, like you say, then that is all the more reason to boycott American dairy, unless you find the kind of farm that Will mentioned. What is your response to this?"

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People reviled today for their activism will be tomorrow's angels, and people respected today for their power will be tomorrow's demons. History will absolve us and condemn them. ~ Paul Watson


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:28 pm 
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Gorilla

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:51 pm
Posts: 594
Location: TX+CA > Migrated > India
I am not OVO.. But Lacto.

I choose not to get into heated arguments of vegan vs lacto-vegetarian.

I'll choose my callings in life in this world.. when I want, how I want. You cant make me choose them, no one can.

You can make me aware.. but I am already aware and I choose a less than perfect path. Thats life. I respect your POSITIVE TRAITS of PETA & VEGAN activism.

I am not going to preach my way to anyone and am not going to take anyone else preaching to me.

Ive noticed that its very easy for you to jump on others..when they lack in absolute 'veganism' as per your standards.

Veganism, Morality, Purism & Spiritualism standards etc are all self defined. Live & Learn.

PS: I did start with an anti-elitist voice on the board.. but I am not going expend anymore energy doing that. You have your views and I have mine. I respect yours and expect the same of mine.

PPS: I have a lot of non veg eating friends. Have had them all my life. They have subtly been made aware of why and whats.. but THEY WILL BEAR THE FRUITS OF THEIR ACTIONS.. WE ALL DO. I dont feel the need to PREACH or PRESSURE others.

Note: The only reason I posted that was to remind you of a 'less than perfect' stance. Thats Life. We all make compromises.

There is always a chain reaction to anything and everything.. Most of us live in privileged nations with food, air conditioning, vehicles that consume precious fuel.. we have chosen to "enjoy" these privileges while most of the world suffers for the lack of drinking water.

Everytime you turn on an air conditioner or drive on a road trip you are taking away energy that could've been used for providing water to a starving thirsty village.

BOTTOMLINE: BE HUMBLE about your 'accomplishments & traits'.

This is my last post in the direction of vegan / lacto-veg conflict.

Quote:
Just because something cant be practiced with absolutism or perfection that doesnt mean it shouldnt be practiced at all.


My point exactly.

Quote:
And there are arguments to be made that can counter your arguemnts above (which IMO are valid by the way). If you create a demand for VEG options at non-veg restaurants or grocery stores, then economics dictates that supply will increase to meet the demand, and more mainstream places, rather than 'specialty' places, will carry vegan items. This is a good thing. So the "answer" to your particular example is not so clear cut.


Life is not clear cut. Period.

Quote:
What is clear cut though, my friend, is that your ova lacto vegetarianism in America is supporting the ruthless and unkind treatment of animals which you claim to revere, unless you are buying your dairy items from the kind of farm Will described in the vegan elitism thread.


What is clear cut is your standards of vegan perfection can be dictated to others.. but maybe there is some vegan out there who would say.. I AM NOT GOING TO EAT AT AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT KILLS ANIMALS.

My grandfather will not eat in a restaurant period. He believes if someone who has killed animals cooks the food or a plate or vessel had some animal in it then its not "shudh" i.e. pure.

He drinks milk.. but in India we get that from the local dairy farm guy who brings the cow to our house...

They could point fingers at you as well. Remember that.

Sorry.. I hate myself for doing this.. "arguing". Non productive negative energy.

So.. vegan and eating in a restaurant that kills animas VS vegetarian that does not and drinks local dairy farm milk..

I dont know.. its a matter of personal choice.

TO MYSELF:
Confessions to Zen master this weekend. BE HUMBLE.


Last edited by crashnburn on Mon May 01, 2006 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:33 pm 
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Gorilla

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:51 pm
Posts: 594
Location: TX+CA > Migrated > India
Actually I realize my folly in trying to preach HUMBLE behavior.

Its upto you in your mind and heart to take it up. My apologies.. I'll try not to instigate or preach again.

PS: No offense intended. Who am I to judge your or anyone elses compromises. I am not absolute and neither is anyone else.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:58 pm 
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Stegosaurus

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 3110
This isnt an argument. It is a discussion, and we have a lot of thought provoking discussions here. No offence taken. Nobody is perfect, and only a fool would claim to be. You will find many instances of "imperfection" if you look hard enough, and sometimes it isnt even that hard. Yes, all we can do is the best we can. So we need to ask ourselves, in quite, private moments, are we really doing the best we can?

And you are right, all I can do is educate/inform you on the horrors of the dairy industry in your current country. I have tried to do that. Now the decision is yours. You speak of humbleness, so let me ask you: How is it humble to eat higher up on the food chain, when such food choices have detrimental impacts on animals, the environment and the starving masses? And what about self-relfection/self-honesty? One reason why I have been so persistent with you is your claim of revering cows. I think that is wonderful. But if you really revere cows, why do you still support their abuse in the country that you currently reside in? How about looking into your heart and ascertaining the reasons? If you are still unsure about the nature or extent of this abuse, I invite you to research it for yourself. The literature and the footage on the dairy industry is abundant - and it isnt all just from PETA. There is no question about the over exploitation of cows in the American dairy industry.It has been argued by researchers, journalists and commentators in this field that if you are concerned with the suffering of cows, but wont go vegan, it would make more of an impact to give up dairy than to give up meat because animals used for dairy suffer longer, and live a longer miserable life. See Jim Mason and Peter Singer, Animal Factories. See also

www.cowsarecool.com
www.milksucks.com


And by the way, your post has conveniently side stepped the question about what you would do if you saw a kitten kicker? Would you judge and interfere to stop the abuse? Or would you keep walking, comforting yourself by saying "I am not perfect either so I must be humble and let the man continue in his animal abuse." If you intervened to stop the torture, would that make you "NOT HUMBLE"?

This is a forum that is meant, in part, to educate and inform people about the plight of animals used for meat, dairy and eggs. That is our position and that is our message here. If you feel that by encouraging people to go nothing short of vegan we are being elitist or somehow not "humble," then you plainly and simply dont appreciate the full magnitude of the suffering that animals in this country endure in the service of dairy (and eggs and meat); nor do you appreciate the magnitude of the detrimental environmental impacts of animal produce consumption; nor the extent to which eating higher up on the food chain contributes significantly to world hunger and the starvation of children. For all these reasons - health, environment, human rights - many of us our vegan. No, vegans are not perfect; no, they cant eliminate all harm and suffering; but we can eliminate a lot of harm by going vegan, and if we are living in a country like the United States where the vegan choices are copious, we can do so easily.

The decision to maintain or withdraw your support for a diet that has such far reaching repercussisons is yours. But dont delude yourself with self-serving notions of "freedom of choice". Freedom of choice, in order to be ethical, has to be tempered with an obligation not to cause harm or suffering to those that CANT DEFEND THEMSELVES againt our greed, self-indulgence, etc etc.


There is nothing more than can be said.

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People reviled today for their activism will be tomorrow's angels, and people respected today for their power will be tomorrow's demons. History will absolve us and condemn them. ~ Paul Watson


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:36 pm 
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Stegosaurus

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 3110
my responses are in blue

[quote="crashnburn"] Ive noticed that its very easy for you to jump on others..when they lack in absolute 'veganism' as per your standards.

There are far more "strict" vegans on this board than myself. Most of them just arent as persistent or as vocal. And it is "easy" for me to insist that people go vegan because I am fully aware and constantly mindful of the real and immediate suffering of animals. Empathy is what drives me. I try and put myself in their position and I am compelled, as a result, to passionately advocate on their behalf

Veganism, Morality, Purism & Spiritualism standards etc are all self defined. Live & Learn.

Veganism isnt about purism or purity. It is about a practical yet powerful way to reduce suffering in the world.

PS: I did start with an anti-elitist voice on the board.. but I am not going expend anymore energy doing that. You have your views and I have mine. I respect yours and expect the same of mine.

I dont feel the need to PREACH or PRESSURE others.

Perhaps if you were to try putting youself in the shoes of the suffering being you might feel a little less relaxed. I wonder if you would feel the "need to preach or pressure" if it was you who was the individual being tortured or abused. The animals are suffering because of our choices. That is the reality and it is one that we need to wake people up to, today, now. I was driving home from school today and I saw a truckfull of terrified, hot, dehydrated, thirsty and hungry cows, destined to be de-limbed while fully conscious. It is beef and dairy desires that make that possible. Let's work together to end the conditions that make this possible.

There is always a chain reaction to anything and everything.. Most of us live in privileged nations with food, air conditioning, vehicles that consume precious fuel.. we have chosen to "enjoy" these privileges while most of the world suffers for the lack of drinking water. Everytime you turn on an air conditioner or drive on a road trip you are taking away energy that could've been used for providing water to a starving thirsty village.

Many environmentalists agree that the SINGLE most important action one can do to preserve the environment - more than any other single action- is go vegan. A plant based diet takes up much less water than one based on animal produce. And an animal based diet is also one that is an inefficient way to feed people. This is deplorable in a world where there are starving masses, including children. See robbins, Food Revolution.


BOTTOMLINE: BE HUMBLE about your 'accomplishments & traits'.

I am very humble because I say it is easy to be vegan in the First World. It isnt rocket science or climbing Everest. And I still have no idea how you figure that relentlessly educating people on animal suffering and asking them to go vegan to reduce that suffering is "unhumble." It is just the opposite of "unhumble" in fact. It is an invitation to escape the delusional realm of our myopic and parochial anthropocentrism. It is a rejection of our typical hubris, not a re-affirmation of it!

Okay i am done here. I have papers I need to worry about rather than explaining this to you in 80 different ways. if you dont understand by now, it is because you choose not to understand.

Good luck with your fitness endeavours.
Look at Rob's vegan muscles for inspiration if you need any :wink:

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People reviled today for their activism will be tomorrow's angels, and people respected today for their power will be tomorrow's demons. History will absolve us and condemn them. ~ Paul Watson


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