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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:36 pm 
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I have my serratus anterior cuts* coming out for the first time. I love this IF stuff! :D

*Those things that look kind of rib-like between your six pack and arm pits. Sorry, I don't know the slang term for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:35 am 
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cubby2112 wrote:
I have my serratus anterior cuts* coming out for the first time. I love this IF stuff! :D

*Those things that look kind of rib-like between your six pack and arm pits. Sorry, I don't know the slang term for them.


Hahaha dude! I've had them since a while back also due to IF. It's awesome. A girl in my class hugged me and felt them and said "Damn, I would like to see you naked".

Martin did a good q&a post at http://www.leangains.com where he talks about calorie restriction vs IF for health and brings up some really valid points for people who both want to be athletic/strong/etc and live healthy. It's taken from the really long thread about IF over at bb.com.

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:01 pm 
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xjohanx wrote:
Hahaha dude! I've had them since a while back also due to IF. It's awesome. A girl in my class hugged me and felt them and said "Damn, I would like to see you naked".

Martin did a good q&a post at http://www.leangains.com where he talks about calorie restriction vs IF for health and brings up some really valid points for people who both want to be athletic/strong/etc and live healthy. It's taken from the really long thread about IF over at bb.com.


That is awesome. Is she going to end up seeing you naked?

Yeah, I read that post. It is a really good one. I tried going through that thread at bb.com once, and ended up crying myself to sleep. Dr. Fuhrman believes strongly that eating fewer meals can have beneficial effects independent of CR as well. Of course, he focuses more on health and longevity than strength/athleticism. Between Martin and him, all angles are covered. I will see if I can dig an article where Fuhrman really goes into meal frequency.

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:20 pm 
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cubby2112 wrote:
Is she going to end up seeing you naked?


Done and done. It's now a fact, IF gets you laid.

Quote:
I tried going through that thread at bb.com once, and ended up crying myself to sleep.


Yeah me too. There was a lot of trolling, repeats and stupid shit. I'm really looking forward to more "best of" posts on leangains.

Quote:
I will see if I can dig an article where Fuhrman really goes into meal frequency.


That would be really cool!

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:35 pm 
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I will look forward to the getting laid aspect of IF. There is a girl in my class I hope to apply that to...

I found a good response to a couple IF questions on Dr. Fuhrman's private site (I have read the rules, and I don't think it is against them for me to copy and paste something from there to here). The stuff in italics are Dr. Fuhrman's own words, while the rest of the stuff consists of studies.

Beneficial effects of intermittent fasting and caloric restriction on the cardiovascular and cerebrovascular systems.

J Nutr Biochem. 2005; 16(3):129-37MattsonMP ;WanR
Laboratory of Neurosciences, National Institute on Aging Intramural Research Program, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA. mattsonm@grc.nia.nih.gov

Intermittent fasting (IF; reduced meal frequency) and caloric restriction (CR) extend lifespan and increase resistance to age-related diseases in rodents and monkeys and improve the health of overweight humans. Both IF and CR enhance cardiovascular and brain functions and improve several risk factors for coronary artery disease and stroke including a reduction in blood pressure and increased insulin sensitivity. Cardiovascular stress adaptation is improved and heart rate variability is increased in rodents maintained on an IF or a CR diet. Moreover, rodents maintained on an IF regimen exhibit increased resistance of heart and brain cells to ischemic injury in experimental models of myocardial infarction and stroke. The beneficial effects of IF and CR result from at least two mechanisms--reduced oxidative damage and increased cellular stress resistance. Recent findings suggest that some of the beneficial effects of IF on both the cardiovascular system and the brain are mediated by brain-derived neurotrophic factor signaling in the brain. Interestingly, cellular and molecular effects of IF and CR on the cardiovascular system and the brain are similar to those of regular physical exercise, suggesting shared mechanisms. A better understanding of the cellular and molecular mechanisms by which IF and CR affect the blood vessels and heart and brain cells will likely lead to novel preventative and therapeutic strategies for extending health span.

[size=][/size]

R. Michael Anson[suP]*, [/suP], Zhihong Guo[suP]*[/suP], Rafael de Cabo, Intermittent fasting dissociates beneficial effects of dietary restriction on glucose metabolism and neuronal resistance to injury from calorie intake PNAS | May 13, 2003 | vol. 100 | no. 10 | 6216-6220

Dietary restriction has been shown to have several health benefits including increased insulin sensitivity, stress resistance,[suP] [/suP]reduced morbidity, and increased life span. The mechanism remains[suP] [/suP]unknown, but the need for a long-term reduction in caloric intake[suP] [/suP]to achieve these benefits has been assumed. We report that when[suP] [/suP]C57BL/6 mice are maintained on an intermittent fasting (alternate-day[suP] [/suP]fasting) dietary-restriction regimen their overall food intake[suP] [/suP]is not decreased and their body weight is maintained. Nevertheless,[suP] [/suP]intermittent fasting resulted in beneficial effects that met or[suP] [/suP]exceeded those of caloric restriction including reduced serum[suP] [/suP]glucose and insulin levels and increased resistance of neurons[suP] [/suP]in the brain to excitotoxic stress. Intermittent fasting therefore[suP] [/suP]has beneficial effects on glucose regulation and neuronal resistance[suP] [/suP]to injury in these mice that are independent of caloric[suP] [/suP]intake.





Elaine A. Hsieh,[suP]1[/suP] Christine M. Chai,[suP]1[/suP] and Marc K. Hellerstein[suP]1,2[/suP]

Effects of caloric restriction on cell proliferation in several tissues in mice: role of intermittent feeding Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 288: E965-E972, 2005.

Reduced cell proliferation may mediate anticarcinogenic effects[suP] [/suP]of caloric restriction (CR). Using heavy water ([suP]2[/suP]H[suB]2[/suB]O) labeling,[suP] [/suP]we investigated the cell proliferation response to CR in detail,[suP] [/suP]including time course, effect of refeeding, and role of intermittent[suP] [/suP]feeding with 5% CR. In the time-course study, 8-wk-old female[suP] [/suP]C57BL/6J mice were placed on a 33% CR regimen (fed 3 times/wk)[suP] [/suP]for varying durations. Compared with responses in controls fed[suP] [/suP]ad libitum (AL), proliferation rates of keratinocytes, mammary[suP] [/suP]epithelial cells, and T cells were markedly reduced within 2[suP] [/suP]wk of CR. In mice fed 95% ad libitum (C95, fed 3 times/wk),[suP] [/suP]cell proliferation was also reduced in all tissues so that differences[suP] [/suP]from 33% CR were only significant at 1 mo. In the refeeding[suP] [/suP]study, mice were refed a C95 diet for varying durations after[suP] [/suP]1 mo of 33% CR. Cell proliferation rebounded to a suprabasal[suP] [/suP]rate in all tissues after 2 wk of refeeding and then normalized[suP] [/suP]after 2 mo, although the C95 group again exhibited lower cell[suP] [/suP]proliferation than the AL group. The role of intermittent feeding[suP] [/suP]was studied by comparing 33% CR and C95 animals (both fed intermittently)[suP] [/suP]with animals fed isocalorically either daily or continuously[suP] [/suP]by pellet dispenser. Intermittent feeding had no additive effect[suP] [/suP]on 33% CR but reduced cell proliferation in all tissues at the[suP] [/suP]95% caloric intake level. In summary, the CR effect on cell[suP] [/suP]proliferation is potent, rapid, and reversible in several tissues,[suP] [/suP]and an intermittent feeding pattern reproduces much of the effect[suP] [/suP]in the absence of substantial CR.[suP] [/suP]

Fasting every other day, while cutting few calories, may reduce cancer risk

By Sarah Yang, Media Relations | 14 March 2005 BERKELEY – An apple a day keeps the doctor away, but could eating an apple every other day be better?

A new study by researchers at the University of California, Berkeley, raises such a possibility. It shows that healthy mice given only 5 percent fewer calories than mice allowed to eat freely experienced a significant reduction in cell proliferation in several tissues, considered an indicator for cancer risk. The key was that the mice eating 5 percent fewer calories were fed intermittently, or three days a week. What is encouraging about the findings is that the reduction in cell proliferation from that intermittent feeding regimen was only slightly less than that of a more severe 33 percent reduction in calories. Until now, scientists have been certain only of a link between a more substantial calorie reduction and a reduction in the rate of cell proliferation.The results of the study are scheduled to appear in the May 2005 issue of the American Journal of Physiology-Endocrinology and Metabolism, but are now available online.

"Cell proliferation is really the key to the modern epidemic of cancer," said Marc Hellerstein, professor of human nutrition in the Department of Nutritional Sciences and Toxicology at UC Berkeley's College of Natural Resources. Hellerstein is principal investigator of the study.

Cancer is essentially the uncontrolled division of cells, and its development typically requires the presence of multiple mutations. "Normally, a cell will try to fix any damage that has occurred to its DNA," said Hellerstein, "But, if it divides before it has a chance to fix the damage, then that damage becomes memorialized as a mutation in the offspring cells. Slowing down the rate of cell proliferation essentially buys time for the cells to repair genetic damage."

Cell proliferation contributes to carcinogenesis in a number of other ways, as well, collectively termed "cancer promotion."

Studies over the past 70 years have established that substantial calorie reduction - up to 50 percent in some studies - not only can reduce the rate of cell proliferation, it can extend the maximum life span of a variety of organisms, including rats, flies, worms and yeast. The results can be dramatic, with 30 to 70 percent increases in life span reported in the studies.

"Significant caloric restriction is the one and only thing that has been scientifically proven to extend life span," said Hellerstein, who has a joint appointment at UC San Francisco. He noted that while exercise and good nutrition can prevent premature death by disease, they have not been shown to extend a maximum life span.

Cutting calories has also been shown to reduce the development of cancer, enhance insulin sensitivity and lower the risk of heart disease.



Yet, as remarkable as those studies may be, their applicability to a human diet is clearly limited. The researchers refer to an old joke that goes along with the findings on caloric restriction: "It's not that you're living longer, it just feels that way."

No doubt, one would be hard pressed to find people willing to embark on what amounts to a lifetime of food deprivation, so the prospect of a more viable intermittent-feeding pattern is appealing.

"What we found is that it may not be necessary to severely restrict calories to reap some of those health benefits," said Elaine Hsieh, a UC Berkeley Ph.D. student in molecular and biochemical nutrition and lead author of the study. "Cutting just a few calories overall but feeding intermittently may be a more feasible eating pattern for some people to maintain."

The researchers conducted several trials with a control group of mice that ate "ad lib," or freely. They compared the control group with mice that ate 5 percent fewer calories but were fed three times a week with mice that were given 33 percent fewer calories. Trial periods ranged from two weeks to three months.

As expected, the researchers found that mice on the 33 percent reduced calorie diet exhibited significantly decreased proliferation rates for skin, breast and T (lymphocyte) cells. The greatest effect was seen after one month on the regimen, when proliferation of skin cells registered only 61 percent of that for mice fed freely.

The surprising finding came with the results of the more modest 5 percent reduced calorie diet that was fed intermittently. Mice in this group had skin cell division rates that were 81 percent of those for mice fed freely.

In all cases, division rates for breast cells were reduced the most. Mice with the lowest calorie diet had breast cell proliferation results that were only 11 percent of those for the control group mice, and mice fed intermittently had results that were 37 percent of those for the control group.

The researchers said this may be partly related to the reduction in estrogen, which stimulates breast cell division. Tests revealed that the estrus cycle stopped for mice on the lowest calorie diet. The mice fed intermittently, on the other hand, continued to cycle regularly.

Results of the refeeding trials indicated that any weight lost during the calorie restriction period was regained once a normal feeding pattern was resumed.

"Overall, we found that the effects of the diet regimens were rapid and reversible, with cell division rates and weight going back to normal after refeeding," said Hsieh. "Although it's too early to say whether similar results would be seen in humans, this study at least provides some hope that another option to severe calorie reduction exists."

"A five percent reduction in calories would be the equivalent of reducing about 100 calories a day in a human diet," said Hellerstein. In other words, for the mice, intermittent feeding seemed to provide similar gain with a bit less pain than a more restrictive diet.

Hellerstein noted that animals in the wild regularly go through cycles of too much and too little food, though not by choice. Major predators, such as lions, may go days without eating and then binge when they make a successful kill. "It may be normal to have periods where we are not eating," said Hellerstein. "But in domestic life, there generally is continuous access to food."

It goes without saying, however, that there is more to changes in eating patterns, such as fasting, than just the physical effects. Both scientific and anecdotal evidence indicates that eating also can impact one's mental state and emotions.

A recent pilot study of 16 non-obese adults by researchers at the Pennington Biomedical Research Center in Louisiana found that eating only every other day was feasible when the participants successfully followed an alternate-day fasting regimen for three weeks. However, the people also reported feeling hungry and irritable on their fasting days.

The authors of the pilot study said that adding a small meal, fulfilling no more than 20 percent of the day's caloric needs, might just take the edge off and make the feeding pattern more palatable.

Notably, the UC Berkeley study is the first to actually quantify the effects of calorie manipulation on cell division. The researchers did so by using heavy water, which is chemically identical to regular water but is about 10 percent heavier because of an extra neutron.

Hellerstein's laboratory pioneered the use of heavy water as a biological marker for cell proliferation. Because heavy water is incorporated into the DNA of new cells, researchers can compare the mass of DNA from tissues in experimental animals to tissues from control animals. They would know that any differences in DNA mass would be attributed to new cells.

"The significance of this labeling is that it allows researchers to accurately gauge the effects of relatively small changes in diet, such as a five percent reduction in caloric intake," said Hellerstein. "Moreover, humans and animals can safely drink heavy water with no ill effect. Everything we did in our study with mice could be safely replicated with humans."

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:42 am 
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Thanks! I've been reading through some abstracts and skimming some full studies and from what I can see the biggest risk with IF is the studies reported increased serum cholesterol levels (however both LDL and HDL went up), increased blood pressure in fasting groups compared to regular meal pattern groups. This is not seen in all studies though. A more beneficial body composition (more muscle less fat) is observed in the IF groups despite diets being iso-caloric sometimes whch is thought to be because of gene expression. It's hard to study this because a lot of the studies are done on so called alternate day fasting. BUt I really never felt so good before and this is by far the easiest way for me to avoid binging.

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:01 am 
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xjohanx wrote:
Thanks! I've been reading through some abstracts and skimming some full studies and from what I can see the biggest risk with IF is the studies reported increased serum cholesterol levels (however both LDL and HDL went up), increased blood pressure in fasting groups compared to regular meal pattern groups. This is not seen in all studies though. A more beneficial body composition (more muscle less fat) is observed in the IF groups despite diets being iso-caloric sometimes whch is thought to be because of gene expression. It's hard to study this because a lot of the studies are done on so called alternate day fasting. BUt I really never felt so good before and this is by far the easiest way for me to avoid binging.


I agree, IF has been the easiest way to keep from overeating.

I think the cholesterol and blood pressure increases in some studies should be insignificant to someone eating primarily plant-based whole foods. The low levels of saturated fat, animal protein and cholesterol should pretty well limit any impact. Dr. Fuhrman has plenty of patients who eat 1-2 meals per day and have serum cholesterol numbers in the low 100s, and LDLs around 70 and below. None have blood pressure problems, either.

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:28 pm 
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cubby2112 wrote:
I will look forward to the getting laid aspect of IF. There is a girl in my class I hope to apply that to...


Good luck with this! One of the many benefits of IF is that you have a real good excuse not to have breakfast with her the morning after. If you actually want to stay for breakfast you don't have to worry about vegan food, just drink coffe or tea.

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:05 pm 
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xjohanx wrote:
cubby2112 wrote:
I will look forward to the getting laid aspect of IF. There is a girl in my class I hope to apply that to...


Good luck with this! One of the many benefits of IF is that you have a real good excuse not to have breakfast with her the morning after. If you actually want to stay for breakfast you don't have to worry about vegan food, just drink coffe or tea.


Thanks. It sounds like you have all the ropes of this figured out!

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:41 am 
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I bought the advanced study package over at McDougallMedia and I watched the two talks from Luigi Fontana. Some interesting stuff:

1. When asked about IF he said that the evidence for it is very weak and not very promising. He talked about a study where people were fed 1 meal one day and 3 the next and so on and it actually raised cholesterol and other markers.

2. IGF-1 does come down for rodents on CR but not humans. They have now tried low (but adequate, like 10% or less from protein) protein diets and that brought the IGF-1 down.

It's a very good lecture, together with the other speakers I really recommend the package!

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:02 am 
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offense74 wrote:
I bought the advanced study package over at McDougallMedia and I watched the two talks from Luigi Fontana. Some interesting stuff:

1. When asked about IF he said that the evidence for it is very weak and not very promising. He talked about a study where people were fed 1 meal one day and 3 the next and so on and it actually raised cholesterol and other markers.

2. IGF-1 does come down for rodents on CR but not humans. They have now tried low (but adequate, like 10% or less from protein) protein diets and that brought the IGF-1 down.

It's a very good lecture, together with the other speakers I really recommend the package!


I would like to see it but I'm a poor student =(

I mentioned the cholesterol issue in this thread but I don't think it's an issue for active people that get most of their fat from mufas and pufas. Also I haven't seen the full version of that study but I would like to see the meal compositions and other things. Because a study on ramadan meal pattern showed a non significant change in total cholesterol or LDL levels but a significant raise of HDL so maybe it's not negative.
IF does have some benefits that CR has not and vice versa. CR isn't really an alternative for me because you obviously can't build much muscle on such a diet.

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:52 am 
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Anyway I'm changing my fasting times to the classic 12 am - 8 pm. I really think it will be better for me to have lunch in school because some days the labs are really long. This way I also have more options when I want to work out. I can do it fasting before 12. I can train a couple of hours after lunch, or if I feel hungry I can have a little snack and then work out. Also I can work out from 5 pm to 6 pm and eat my last meal from 7 pm to 8 pm which is likely what I will do on school days. On weekends I think I will do the fasted workouts.
I eat about 3000-3100 calories on non workout days and 3400-3500 calories on workout days and have been doing so for about 8 weeks now. The result is pretty great. I haven't stepped on a scale but I'm gaining strength in all body parts/excersises and I'm still in a decent condition. (check the "Your shape today!" thread viewtopic.php?f=26&t=20134) Usually increases in strength comes with increased muscle mass and I will find out in about 2-3 weeks when I do another bodpod and can compare results.

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:13 am 
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I fast to the refrigerator.

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:54 pm 
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Vegan Joe wrote:
I fast to the refrigerator.


How can you last that long? You must be eating away all your muscle!

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent fasting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:19 pm 
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Leangains.com was updated today.

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