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 Post subject: Vegan Pets
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:44 pm 
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Manatee
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I feed my dogs your regular old run of the mill dog food. It's the ONLY animal product I buy. There is a lot of controversy over whether or not it's healthy for a dog to be vegan. I know that the Vegan Vixens chick who rescues pit bulls feeds them totally vegan diets. She says it's to remove their blood lust (many are rescued from dog fighting circles). I spoke to a biologist who said that dogs can live without meat for a while but their health will eventually start to decline. He also said that cats can NOT live without meat for very long at all because they are straight up carnivores whereas dogs are situational carnivores so dogs can go longer without meat. He also said that if you have an indoor only cat, you need to feed it a raw chicken wing once or twice a month. That pretty much destroyed any chance of me having an indoor cat ever again. There is a cat that hangs around here, I call her Ora and I let her in when it's cold outside but generally she lives outside so she's free to hunt for herself. There are plenty of field mice around here for her to munch on should she find it necessary.

Anyone out there feeding their CANINES a vegan diet or have experience in this sort of thing? I'm too scared to sacrifice my puppies' health right now but as I do more research, I may change my mind. Dogs do have SOME hunting adaptations and that's why I hesitate. But my dogs are very polite most of the time until I make hummus and then they start begging like CRAZY. They don't do that with all food, just hummus. It's really weird. They don't even do that at my parents' house when they are cooking meat.

You look at a cat though and cute as they are, they are killing machines. Super sharp claws and teeth, cat-like reflexes (was that redundant). I have never heard of cats eating plants and never saw any eating plants.

I love when people say humans are built for meat because we have "canine" teeth. I want to tell them to go kill a rabbit with their canines and then I will buy that argument.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:39 pm 
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Gorilla
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Evan, if I had a cat, I would feed it non-vegan food; no reason to (eventually) kill it just for *my* natural quest to be vegan; cats are not vegan.

Now, dogs, I believe, can be successful vegan. However, it does take diligence.
Here's a good source: WOW BOW, Vegan Dog Food

I fed a foster Dog this diet and he was fine. He did have an adjustment period, though. He had a bit of diarrhea for a spell, but was okay after that. Anyway, he came from a shelter and had worms, etc., so that may actually have contributed to his issues. He needed extra vet care.

He eventually liked his food. Didn't take long at all.
:)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:20 pm 
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There was a pretty long discussion on this subject somewere here, forgot where though.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:00 am 
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I've been feeding my dog Purina Beneful Healthy Harvest lately. It's mainly corn, wheat, soy, animal fat, barley, brewer's yeast, and some other stuff. It's not vegan, but it has a lot less animal products than most dog foods, and my dog likes eating it and seems healthy.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:13 pm 
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Elephant

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There are several vegan/vegetarian dog foods available. Dogs are more omnivorous, like us, and can thrive on a well-balanced veg*n diet (Wow Bow is a good source).

Unfortunately, the same is not true of cats. Even companies that used to sell veg*n cat foods now recommend against feeding it exclusively. And I had a bad experience with a cat of mine that I tried to feed vegan (luckily, a reversible, treatable problem, and the experiment didn't last long) that I would not try it again.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:33 am 
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I can tell I'm not gonna be very popular with my posts here, but animals are animals. I am only going to give them what their bodies need and want naturally. Cats and dogs eat meat and grass and salt. That's it. Dogs will eat other things, but it's unnatural and while they will survive, they will not thrive. I find that my dog is fine with meat products, but when you add in corn or soy or other "fillers" she develops alergies. I've never seen a dog make soy or cut down a corn cobb. It's just not natural. For me, it's a choice for health, not an ethical decision. I suppose that's why I have no problem with feeding them meat products...but I never give them dairy...it's also unnatural for them to milk a cow!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:31 am 
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Elephant
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wnddrrwmnn wrote:
I can tell I'm not gonna be very popular with my posts here, but animals are animals. I am only going to give them what their bodies need and want naturally. Cats and dogs eat meat and grass and salt. That's it. Dogs will eat other things, but it's unnatural and while they will survive, they will not thrive. I find that my dog is fine with meat products, but when you add in corn or soy or other "fillers" she develops alergies. I've never seen a dog make soy or cut down a corn cobb. It's just not natural. For me, it's a choice for health, not an ethical decision. I suppose that's why I have no problem with feeding them meat products...but I never give them dairy...it's also unnatural for them to milk a cow!


I've never seen a wild pack of dogs hunt down a bag of dog food with meat in it either.

There are lots of different types of dogs. Some do well on a vegetarian or near vegetarian diet, others don't

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:56 pm 
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kollision wrote:
There was a pretty long discussion on this subject somewere here, forgot where though.

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1225

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:12 pm 
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Rabbit

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willpeavy wrote:
wnddrrwmnn wrote:
I can tell I'm not gonna be very popular with my posts here, but animals are animals. I am only going to give them what their bodies need and want naturally. Cats and dogs eat meat and grass and salt. That's it. Dogs will eat other things, but it's unnatural and while they will survive, they will not thrive. I find that my dog is fine with meat products, but when you add in corn or soy or other "fillers" she develops alergies. I've never seen a dog make soy or cut down a corn cobb. It's just not natural. For me, it's a choice for health, not an ethical decision. I suppose that's why I have no problem with feeding them meat products...but I never give them dairy...it's also unnatural for them to milk a cow!


I've never seen a wild pack of dogs hunt down a bag of dog food with meat in it either.


There are lots of different types of dogs. Some do well on a vegetarian or near vegetarian diet, others don't


LOL! true that! But I do stick with stuff that's made from turkey and chicken usually. The less ingredients the better! I'd go all natural for them, but I can't stand the smell of poultry.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:25 pm 
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Gorilla

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I don't like arguing that something is "natural" therefore it's the right thing to do. People use that kind of thinking to justify all kinds of stuff. Like animals eat other animals, therefore eating animals is natural, therefore humans should do what's "natural." Or humans never lived in the past as total vegans, therefore veganism isn't natural, etc. That something is "natural" doesn't really mean anything. Humans can be vegans even though it's not "natural." Dogs can be vegans even though it's not "natural." Etc.

Some cats seem to do OK also on a vegan diet. I think male cats have more problems than females...? I have cats and haven't tried it because I need to save every penny right now.

My cats are always bringing in birds also... They don't kill them though. I always set them free again and they fly away. Hope they don't go drop dead a few hours later.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:45 pm 
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Jay wrote:
I don't like arguing that something is "natural" therefore it's the right thing to do. People use that kind of thinking to justify all kinds of stuff. Like animals eat other animals, therefore eating animals is natural, therefore humans should do what's "natural." Or humans never lived in the past as total vegans, therefore veganism isn't natural, etc. That something is "natural" doesn't really mean anything. Humans can be vegans even though it's not "natural." Dogs can be vegans even though it's not "natural." Etc.

Some cats seem to do OK also on a vegan diet. I think male cats have more problems than females...? I have cats and haven't tried it because I need to save every penny right now.

My cats are always bringing in birds also... They don't kill them though. I always set them free again and they fly away. Hope they don't go drop dead a few hours later.


And I'm willing to agree to disagree. The difference is choice. I choose to be this way. The pets we have under our care if they could talk, would probally say something different. Just because a dog will eat anything doesn't mean it's good for him. They are dependant on what we feed them. Animals in nature have more instinctual responses to food than us humans, who have the ability to pick and choose what we want. If you look out in nature...wolves and ferel cats do not eat vegan diets. Wolves and ferel cats are muscular, strong, have higher immune systems than house pets. Humans on the other hand were mainly gatherers with the occasional hunt for meat products. We can pick and choose, but house pets don't have a voice, they are just happy to eat something, as they are not having to hunt it themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegan Pets
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:44 am 
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Evan wrote:
I feed my dogs your regular old run of the mill dog food.


Evan, if you are feeding your pets commercial, run of the mill pet foods, please at least make sure that they dont engage in this type of cruelty:

www.iamscruelty.com

You will find a list of cruelty free pet foods on that website.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:08 am 
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Gorilla

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wnddrrwmnn wrote:
And I'm willing to agree to disagree. The difference is choice. I choose to be this way. The pets we have under our care if they could talk, would probally say something different. Just because a dog will eat anything doesn't mean it's good for him. They are dependant on what we feed them. Animals in nature have more instinctual responses to food than us humans, who have the ability to pick and choose what we want.

Well I think in nature, they are even more limited. They literally have to eat whatever they can stomach. Everyday is survival. Insects, trash, half rotted carcasses.... I really don't think they get to be very choosey in the wild....

Quote:
If you look out in nature...wolves and ferel cats do not eat vegan diets. Wolves and ferel cats are muscular, strong, have higher immune systems than house pets.

Well actually they are often just skin and bone when living in the wild. They might be more muscular if they are constantly having to sprint away from something or after something in order to survive. How do you know their immune systems are better? I'm sure their life expectancy is a lot less.

Quote:
Humans on the other hand were mainly gatherers with the occasional hunt for meat products. We can pick and choose, but house pets don't have a voice, they are just happy to eat something, as they are not having to hunt it themselves.

Well for me there are other considerations than the pet getting to choose. I'm an ethical vegan so we can just agree to disagree on that if you want.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:29 am 
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Gorilla
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Jay wrote:
.

Some cats seem to do OK also on a vegan diet. I think male cats have more problems than females...?


Jay, I don't know of any successful exclusively vegan cats. They may do okay for a while, but eventually succumb to illness.
Also, many people who claim their cats are thriving as vegans, allow their cats to hunt outside; so they really aren't vegan. They easily find mice, squirrels, and birds :cry:
The controversial part for me is, while it is the nature of cats to hunt for food, domesticated cats are not living in their natural habitat. They are hunting and causing destruction in areas and to animals in areas where they don't belong.
This has caused some problems in certain places with species being decimated. Introduction of non-native species to an environment has been and continues to be a major problem all over the world and, of course, it's pretty much our doing.
It's hard to weigh the ethics of being vegan with the natural order of things. I mean, we're interfering with nature, no matter how you look at it. The cats are here, so we have to deal with it; and since we decided to domesticate animals which we had no business doing, we have to take care of them as best we can. It's not going to be good for our veganism; but this is one instance we have to compromise.

sorry, if I'm unclear; can't seem to find words today :?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:06 pm 
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My cat has never hunted birds or mice, not showing any interest at all, but she LOVES bugs. Moths especially! And gobbles them up as quickly as she finds them. I've tried to pry them out of her mouth, but I've given up. She's too quick!

I'm not talking the average city dog/cat that eats out of garbage cans, but those that have access to the woods and other natural habitats. They are in the elements and have much sturdier constitutions.

Oh and just cause I thought this interesting...I recently dropped a piece of mango that I was slicing. My dog, who never shows any interest in people food aside from sniffing it, actually ate it. She then sat there and for the first time, begged me for food. Never shown any interest in any thing else that I've dropped, but MANGO???? I figured it a fluke and gave her another piece...and it's hilarious watching her eat the tiny piece of mango I gave her. It's almost as though she is savoring the taste. Who figured?


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