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 Post subject: Re: Vitamin B-12: Where To Get It Cheap And Vegan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:28 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 10:46 pm
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vegimator wrote:
Lobsteriffic- if you're good about taking the multi every day and it has at least 25 micrograms of b-12 in it (preferably as cyanocobalamin) you should be fine.

Cyanocobalamin is not the preferred form. Cyanocobalamin does not affect homocysteine methylation. Since vegans have elevated homocysteine levels (you can google this for studies), methylcobalamin would be the better form, as well as other methylating nutrients like B6, folate, TMG and creatine. Read here: http://www.drinkyourvitamins.com/images ... olaloa.pdf
and here: http://www.drinkyourvitamins.com/homocy ... ancer.html
Although these links are from a commercial source (Ola Loa vitamins) they are written by Dr. Richard Kunin, a well-respected orthomolecular physician. here's another:
http://www.naturalnews.com/020019.html
Although I am LOATH to link to NaturalNews, this is a good interview.

fitrx wrote:
Hello all ...

This one caught my eye as a vegan pharmacist ... so I had to chime in.

Depending on what works for your day to day routines ... I have found a weekly B12 sub-lingual lozenge (2,000 mcg - 2,500 mcg) to be the most practical to keep my B12 levels within range - If I forget one week - so what ... I take it the next time around and get in 4 tabs/month.

I always have my B12 level (blood work) checked during my annual physical and have been @ the top of the limits. Therefore, this is keeping my B12 stores satisfactory and I have noticed improvements in my other related labs as well - and I have decreased the amount I supplement as well ...

I always suggest that all vegetarians, esp. vegans get annual blood work and then tailor their supplements accordingly ... otherwise you are wasting your money and/or driving blind. I recently found that my Vitamin D stores were critically low and have added a Vitamin D2 supplement 2,400 IU/day to resolve that issue ... esp with the risk of bone fractures as a body builder, IMPORTANT!

Watch out for D3 ... this one is derived from animal sources! Most multivitamins utilize D3 - heads up!

So overall ... ask your physician to run a folate, B12, Vitamin D, Tranferrin saturation, Iron and whatever else they deem appropriate ... and then tailor your supplements accordingly ... You may not need anything if your diet is consistent and your are within normal limits.

This is good advice on the B12. A few sublingual tablets per month (1000mcg of methylcobalamin) elevated my B12 to very high levels as well.

As far as the D2 goes, you should be aware it's an unnatural form of vitamin D. It's not normally found in the body and is not as effective as D3 in raising 25(OH)D levels. We know about how much D3 the skin produces, and we know about how much D3 that equates to in supplement form. We know D2 is not natural, not as effective-- about all it has going is that it's vegan. So my recommendation would be to use a tanning bed that specifically emits the UV wavelengths that produce vitamin D. here's a link to a google site search of Vitamin D Council:
http://www.google.ca/search?q=d2+site%3 ... e=off&tbs=


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 Post subject: Re: Re: Vitamin B-12: Where To Get It Cheap And Vegan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:22 pm 
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Elephant
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PMvegan wrote:
As far as the D2 goes, you should be aware it's an unnatural form of vitamin D. It's not normally found in the body and is not as effective as D3 in raising 25(OH)D levels. We know about how much D3 the skin produces, and we know about how much D3 that equates to in supplement form. We know D2 is not natural, not as effective-- about all it has going is that it's vegan. So my recommendation would be to use a tanning bed that specifically emits the UV wavelengths that produce vitamin D. here's a link to a google site search of Vitamin D Council:
http://www.google.ca/search?q=d2+site%3 ... e=off&tbs=

Whoa whoa whoa there. A tanning bed instead of D2?! That doesn't sound like a good idea at all.

D2 is the form the original rickets studies showed effective. While D3 has been shown more effective recently at keeping blood levels elevated, D2 hasn't been shown ineffective or dangerous.

UV on the other hand is dangerous. Not to the point we have to hide under rocks all day, but D2 supplementation just seems more sensible than tanning beds.

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 Post subject: Re: Re: Vitamin B-12: Where To Get It Cheap And Vegan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 10:46 pm
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chrisjs wrote:
Whoa whoa whoa there. A tanning bed instead of D2?! That doesn't sound like a good idea at all.

D2 is the form the original rickets studies showed effective. While D3 has been shown more effective recently at keeping blood levels elevated, D2 hasn't been shown ineffective or dangerous.

UV on the other hand is dangerous. Not to the point we have to hide under rocks all day, but D2 supplementation just seems more sensible than tanning beds.

Notice I didn't say D2 is ineffective and dangerous, just that it's not natural (which seems like a philosophical contradiction given most people here eat a vegan diet at least partially for this reason) and less effective than D3.

Regarding your point on UV being dangerous: I could link you to studies on sun exposure vs sun avoidance, discuss the relative merits of high serum 25(OH)D3 over UV avoidance, discuss sunscreen, specify the (rather small) amount of UV exposure necessary for D3 production, mention the opinions of various dermatologists, talk about optical isomers of D3 that boost mood and are produced from UV exposure but not supplementation--- but, suffice to say, the whole of human (and most species') evolution would argue against UV being "dangerous"... just sayin'.

edit: I guess I would concede that UV is dangerous. I mean, theoretically, you can kill yourself by drinking water, so this does make water "dangerous" in that it has the possibility to create danger to one's health.


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 Post subject: Re: Re: Vitamin B-12: Where To Get It Cheap And Vegan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:02 pm 
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Finch

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:24 pm
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Location: San Jose, CA
PMvegan wrote:
Notice I didn't say D2 is ineffective and dangerous, just that it's not natural (which seems like a philosophical contradiction given most people here eat a vegan diet at least partially for this reason) and less effective than D3.

Regarding your point on UV being dangerous: I could link you to studies on sun exposure vs sun avoidance, discuss the relative merits of high serum 25(OH)D3 over UV avoidance, discuss sunscreen, specify the (rather small) amount of UV exposure necessary for D3 production, mention the opinions of various dermatologists, talk about optical isomers of D3 that boost mood and are produced from UV exposure but not supplementation--- but, suffice to say, the whole of human (and most species') evolution would argue against UV being "dangerous"... just sayin'.

edit: I guess I would concede that UV is dangerous. I mean, theoretically, you can kill yourself by drinking water, so this does make water "dangerous" in that it has the possibility to create danger to one's health.

Whether or not something is "natural" is very irrelevant. Appealing to nature is known as the naturalistic fallacy.

The general concern with UV is that it is more likely to cause skin cancer in those with a family history of skin cancer, a family history of cancer in general, and with lighter, more sensitive skin. I agree it is not bad, but I personally would advocate more time in the sun over a tanning bed.


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 Post subject: Re: Vitamin B-12: Where To Get It Cheap And Vegan
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:57 pm 
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Rabbit
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
In New Zealand, I use the Clinicians sublingual B12 (methylcobalamin). It costs $16 a bottle and lasts for 4 months. Only one drop a day, which contains 50mcg of B12.

Also, cyanocobalamin isn't the best form of B12 to have. A build up of cyanide from it when it metabolises can be a problem for some people, plus you need intrinsic factor to absorb it. The good thing with co-enzyme forms of B12 (like methylcobalamin) means you can absorb it more readily as it does not require the intrinsic factor.

As for the effectiveness of D2, a study from the Boston Medical School in 2008 showed it is just as effective as D2 and has the same toxicity as D3. If you do take a D2 supplement, do it when you are eating something fatty to help increase absorption. Humans have obviously evolved to obtain Vitamin D from plant/fungal sources as well when we migrated from the African savannah into cooler climates with greater variations of UV radiation during the year (this is just my theory).


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 Post subject: Re: Vitamin B-12: Where To Get It Cheap And Vegan
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:55 am 
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Rabbit
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Location: Auckland, Aotearoa/New Zealand
I get an injection every three months. It is government subsidised here which helps. I'm unsure of whether it is vegan though, but I do feel like I have few other options. I used to take Solgar 1000ug tablets but it affected my skin negatively (apparently from cyonide traces...?).

B12 deficiency was one of the most horrible feelings I have had.

Hey KumaraMash, I'm in Auckland too! Wooo! I will have to look into the sublingual drops you mention.

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 Post subject: Re: Vitamin B-12: Where To Get It Cheap And Vegan
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:36 pm 
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Rabbit
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I think I know who VeganResistance is now from the Auckland Vegan Fitness group on FB :-)

The B12 injection that is subsidised by the Ministry of Health is vegan, just contains a crapola of synthetic preservatives.


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 Post subject: how to be on a diet
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:25 pm 
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Finch

Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:22 pm
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Dieting isn’t just about losing weight. If a person wants to lose weight , then there are several ways such as fasting, taking inadequate food, medications etc. But all these methods might affect other body parts. For dieting you have to find out the ideal weight and shape for yourself. So that, while dieting you can concentrate more upon those body parts which needs to be thinner. People have different affected areas of obesity. Some might have thin legs but very large belly. Some might have fat depositions in the middle back and arms while rest of the body would be in shape.


how to diet
how to be on a diet


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 Post subject: Re: Vitamin B-12: Where To Get It Cheap And Vegan
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:26 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:58 pm
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Location: Dominican Republic
I've been vegan for a year now and I'm still in the Dark Ages when it comes to vitamins and supplements. I take a multivitimin/mineral supplement, always have. For a while, aside from that, I took a B vitamin supplement for a while, then brewer's yeast in pill form. Should I take a B12 supplement aside from the multivitamins? Or should I take B vit supplement + multivitamins+B12 supplement? I'm a very active person, train 6 times a week, 41 year old mother of two, and I'm really concern about permanent damage that can be done to my body out of sheer ignorance. I need help! Any light shed on this matter will be eternally thanked!


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 Post subject: Re: Vitamin B-12: Where To Get It Cheap And Vegan
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:53 am 
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Elephant
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Follow the link in the OP. It's all right there.

But the short answer is, you need to take a B12 supplement. Many people (including non vegans) don't get enough and many people don't absorb it well. The supplement is cheap, safe, and a deficiency doesn't usually present symptoms until permanent damage has occurred.

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 Post subject: Re: Vitamin B-12: Where To Get It Cheap And Vegan
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:57 am 
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Rabbit

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Is Marmite/Vegemite not considered Vegan? Surely its better for you than relying on supplements. Needing supplements to survive would suck, what ever happened to good old mother nature looking after us? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite


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 Post subject: Re: Vitamin B-12: Where To Get It Cheap And Vegan
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:22 am 
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Rabbit
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DevilsAdvocate, the B12 in Marmite is an added supplement, there are zero vegan food sources of B12 (as far as I am aware). sure, you could eat a whole bunch of Marmite, but personally I'd rather supplement - at least then I can control which form of B12 is being used.

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 Post subject: Re: Vitamin B-12: Where To Get It Cheap And Vegan
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:43 am 
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Question- I take a b-12 chewable from Sundown that is "high potency" and leave it under my tongue to dissolve because I heard that it's better (the liquid is anyway). Anybody have info on the absorbency of the b-12 chew-able?

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 Post subject: Re: Vitamin B-12: Where To Get It Cheap And Vegan
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:26 am 
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I'm taking berocca as my b vitamin.each tablet has 8.6 μg b12

Is this a good source/enough b12?I also take a multi vitamin, liquid iron supplement(that has added b12, calcium).

Only started supplementing this year though after 3 years of thinking i wouldnt need to.But now im more cautious and want the best progress.


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 Post subject: Re: Vitamin B-12: Where To Get It Cheap And Vegan
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:33 pm 
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Cold Fission wrote:
I'm taking berocca as my b vitamin.each tablet has 8.6 μg b12

Is this a good source/enough b12?


http://veganhealth.org/articles/dailyrecs

http://veganhealth.org/articles/vitaminb12


Quote:
I also take a multi vitamin, liquid iron supplement(that has added b12, calcium).


If you are a man you shouldn't take iron at all. It can build up and become toxic.

Quote:
Only started supplementing this year though after 3 years of thinking i wouldnt need to.But now im more cautious and want the best progress.


Everything you need to know about vegan supplements and vegan nutrition on one page:

http://veganhealth.org/articles/dailyrecs

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