Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

I've reached a block with my bulking this last couple months...I'm getting 1 gram protein per pound body weight, and other than that basically eating as much healthy foods as possible, avoiding junk foods.
Spacing things out so that I eat all day long and not in big meals...

I work out 2 -3 hrs a day and its intense, all sets to failure at a minimum...doing a split routine. My body holds up just fine. But my metabolism is crazy and I can't get enough calories to make gains. My appetite is zero...I remember once upon a time I was extreme hungry after workouts but not anymore. I stuff my face despite feeling turned off food and as a result I feel sick like throwing up all the time becasue I'm so full and force feeding myself...I stay up an extra 2 hrs past bedtime trying to eat eat eat even though I feel over stuffed already...and then I'll go to bed and wake up 4 hrs later starving hungry! I do not enjoy eating...its a chore, nothing tastes good to me, and it doesn't matter what I eat but I fight the gag reflex and feel sick for hours afterward. Even when I'm hungry the thought of eating now makes me gag.

To get the results I want I probably need another 1000 calories a day more than what I'm getting. It seems that the only thing I can put down my throat that doesn't make me feel sick is straight sugar...I've been trying to avoid unhealthy foods but in this case where my stomach can't take anything more, and sugar is the only thing that doesn't make me feel sick, can I drink syrup or something similar to top up on calories??? Or should I still avoid any junk foods?

Possibly overeating isn't the problem....and its that having food inside me makes me feel sick - which feels the same as being overstuffed - and then I'm unable to intake more food. Feels like my body is rejecting food entirely.

Has anyone else had similar experience or ideas?

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I had the same problem once (couldn't stomach food unleess it was sweet.

My advice, eat some PB and J sandwiches (with quality ingredients (100% stoneground bread, 100% peanut butter, 100% real fruit Jam, or sugarfree jam if you are worried about sugar intake).

The bread and PB will form a complete protein, and 100% stoneground breads usually contain 8-10grams of protein 'per slice' (16-20g per 2 slices).
combine this with the protein from 20g of peanut butter and you have about 27g of protein, 30-35g carbs, and 10-12g fat (Plus it tastes sooo good).


Also, try having a piece of fruit with each meal, it gets your taste buds going, whilst providing your body with vitamins and will aid in overall digestion of the meal.

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"Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated." -Arnold


My Training Journal:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=26321

What is the rest of your diet like? i.e. by healthy foods are you mostly eating low calories foods like fruit, veg etc?

These foods are of course healthy, but they are not calorie dense. And when your appetite is poor, they are not the foods to be filling up on. You need to eat foods that are calorie dense, which can still be healthy of course. So as Nicholas said nuts and seeds (or nut spreads), avocado, oils (sunflower, olive, peanut - use a variety), and sweet foods if that's what your appetite desires. I make my own soy ice-cream and 'tofu chocolate mouse for desserts http://video.about.com/vegetarian/Mousse.htm

Too many people get hung up on eating a clean diet (no oils or sugars), but in the case of the former, there is evidence that quality oils are actually healthy for us (reduce cholesterol and improve blood lipid profile) and in the case of sugar... well the main detriment is that if you eat it in excess it can cause weight gain... which is what you want!

There is no point having a sugar free, oil free diet if you are losing weight and become emaciated and malnourished. So long as you still get your vitamins and minerals from some fruits/veg and quality protein foods like lentils, beans, tofu, nuts and seeds, calcium fortified soy-milk, then don't feel bad about adding extra calories with fats and sugars. You may find that once you start gaining weight your appetite will return. It's often a vicious cycle...

Good-luck!

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Life is 10% what happens to us and 90% of how we react to it. Our Attitude towards life determines life's attitude towards us.

What are your meals looking like?

I don't feel so stuffed when I drink up some of my food. And I love dates, put them where I want to sweeten up something (then blend it well), black molasse is quite interesting too from a nutritional value and the taste can be enjoyable when we now how to use it... I try to get my 9 servings of veggies/fruits per day, it's really hard sometimes, so I always try to eat "bulking food" first, healthy stuff at the end of the meals. Spices with oil, mustard, keetchup, sauces, it helps me to get things down (and we need some fat anyway).

Anyway, I'm not sure it helps, good luck!

precision female, your name says it all! You are a thinker, a perfectionist, and you hold yourself to pretty high standards, am I right? When a top notch brain like yours gets a hold of a problem or a worry, you're like Doberman with a sock: you just won't let it go. Do you analyze, research, go over your actions again and again in your head until you've pinpointed the problem? Do you dive into solving problems with both feet? Do you only really give yourself points when you've solved a problem completely?

Whew! I'm exhausted. Relax, you're not failing or losing ground, you're just in Doberman mode and stalled with the problem still between your teeth. Put it down, take a step back from it, and do what feels natural for a while. Give yourself a braincation. I guarantee you that the stress you're putting yourself through agonizing over this is a big part of the problem. Do you realize that under stress the body stops absorbing nutrients from food? It just sends everything right on through from one end to the other as a survival mechanism because digestion and even cellular repair require a great deal of energy from the body. If the body thinks it's in danger (read: nervous system spiking over pretty much anything nerve wracking) it will shut down "unnecessary" functions and deliver everything it has to the emergency use of the brain, muscles, and circulatory system. Thank your amygdala for this. It'll save your ass from a charging lion but it will whip your ass if you're under a lot of sustained daily stress.

You actually need to relax to get pumped again in the future (if you want the pump to be healthy and productive). You'll figure it out. Switch gears for a little while. Do the form of meditation you like, and any focused thought is a form of meditation. Spend time with people and animals who will make you smile and laugh. Get a massage. Watch upbeat comedies. Have great sex. Rediscover the joy of life. Convince that superpowered brain of yours that you are not in Code Red. Then, eat simply and gently and build it up from there.

You're okay. This is temporary. Things are shifting.

Baby Herc

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Thanks for the comments...will think on some of these things...

Baby herc you have an amazing talent to read between the lines. I have BPD. I do not tolerate ambiguity, compromise or anything less than 100%. I belong in the army.
I can't sit still to meditate, have no TV, refuse to spend money on non essential items like massages, haven't let a man touch me for 6 years and don't think I ever will again... joy and fun are not priorities in my life. And that's all ok with me.

An average daily diet consists of protein shake in morning (25 g protein), bagel (20 g), couple handfulls of various nuts (15g), a vegan no cheese pizza at work (18g), another protein shake after workout #2 - with vega vitamin/mineral stuff (25g), and half a brick of Tofu after dinner (20g).... its all pretty calorie dense stuff.
I'm not a fan of fruits and vegetables but trying...theres no fresh fruits or vegables in Canada right now...and the stuff that arrives from peru is crappy.

_________________
Failure: unacceptable.
Find me on facebook: Deborah Nasmyth

Baby Herc! You're great!

It's what I do. No, really, it's what I do. I'm a mind-body coach/motivational speaker.


How about coming up with your own name for this? The labels the Mental Community, as I call them, throws around are really disempowering. They make it sound like a life sentence when it's certainly not. Oprah calls her negative inner talk Fang and her supportive inner voice Buddy. I simply refer to mine as "low vibration" and "high vibration." I know someone else who uses super heroes and villains. It takes the edge off and makes you feel stronger than the problem. Which you are.


Or the weight room! These qualities make you perfect for projects that require discipline and diligence over time.


So don't sit. Did you know that walking is a meditation, as well as running, doing the dishes, and even lifting? Any focused mental thought that tunes out external stimuli actually sends your brain into an altered state of consciousness that can be measured in an MRI. Athletes call it the "zone" or being in the "flow." You already know how to do this, just choose to do it more often and view it as a break for your brain.


Amen, sister! Me, neither.


I exchange consultations for massages. There are people out there ready to do this.


Like one needs a man for great sex! (Sorry, guys.)


All your physiological systems come online and begin running smoothly and automatically when you feel what people call joy. It's very similar to the endorphin rush athletes get except that the joy state has much more far reaching benefits in the body, from the brain to the circulatory system, endocrine system, reproductive system, muscles, organs, lymph, even your ability to repair your skin and fight off cold cooties. And you can get all that for the bargain basement price of laughing your ass off at least once a day.

Don't worry too much about your diet right now. You're getting plenty of food, I'm just betting that it's not being absorbed efficiently. I know it makes about as much sense as driving everywhere backwards for a while but think about trying less effort instead of more. Justify it in your mind however you need to--vacation, building phase, healing, etc.--and see how your body responds. It doesn't mean non-movement, just a down shift for a little while to let your engine cool and reset. See what happens.

Everything will work out in the end.

Baby Herc

_________________
Power [][][][][][][][][][]
Speed [][]
Stamina [][][][][][]
Smarts [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
http://allthoughtsworkoutdoors.wordpress.com/

Of course...I should have read between the lines and recognized the words of a therapist....do I owe you a massage now???

I'm comfortable with the diagnosis of BPD...it was a great relief to find out that the chaos had a name and I could research and get help for it (although I refuse medications for the depression/anxiety related to the BPD)....but...if I had to rename it...ok...I would say I suffer from "100% uncompromising disease"

Rest and relaxation fill me with anxiety...I HATE sitting on beaches, or reading, or any of that "fun" stuff. I'm only content in achievement mode. Less effort?! lol...ok theres my laugh of the day... less effort = UNACCEPTABLE. I cut my 2.5 hour workout 5 minutes short today and I'm dissapointed in myself...I will probably do 2 hr 35 minutes tomorrow. (Maybe 2hr 40 if I charge myself interest.) But I do pay attention to bio feedback and adjust workouts accordingly...

Hm. I wonder if I'm not absorbing foods efficiently...that might make sense...I guess I'll shake my sock a little harder now until I start absorbing stuff.

_________________
Failure: unacceptable.
Find me on facebook: Deborah Nasmyth

It is also possible that, if you're training 2.5 hours/day that your body is simply giving you some feedback to slow things down for a while. Even after adapting to longer workouts, it is still possible to overtrain a bit, and sometimes issues with digestion and/or nausea after eating can be a sign of this.

Just remember, it's quality over quantity, and simply spending more time in the gym to feel "good" about the time spent there does not automatically translate to progress - in fact, too much of a good thing can set you back in the end. I learned this the hard way about 15 years back when I was lifting 1.5 to 2 hours each day while running 4-6 miles/day on top of that; after a few weeks at that pace, even though I was able to get through my workouts easily enough, I found myself slipping backward in time. I was putting WAY too much stress on my body and it eventually started making me feel ill for no reason, I would get lethargic mid-day out of nowhere, and all fat loss AND muscle gain came to a grinding halt. Only when I started to split things up (lifting one day, running the next) did my body stop with the unpleasant symptoms, it let me know well enough what my limits were and that I was trying to do too much, too quickly.

Some of the best bodybuilders out there get in the gym only 3-4 times per week and be out in 90 minutes or less and do wonders in that little amount of time. A good diet and training program won't require you to spend MORE time in the gym, it will actually require less, since time spent training is not directly proportionate to results achieved. And, even though many of us are mentally addicted to training, sometimes you have to fight your mind and beat it into submission when it's steering you toward something out of compulsion rather than being something that's actually helping you progress to get the results you're after. You may have to come to a crossroads to pick and choose what's more important to you - feeling good about spending hours in the gym training just for the sake of spending lots of time training, or, getting optimal results, because they may not be things you can necessarily have at the same time.

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"A 'hardgainer' is merely someone who hasn't bothered to try enough different training methods to learn what is actually right for their own damned body." - anonymous

Man, I wish I could train for 2-3 hours a day and not feel hungry... I think most people have the opposite problem, that they are always hungry, and can't be bothered to train enough.

My only advice would be to gradually increase what you eat, rather than say "I know I need to be eating X more..." because if you see it like that, it can seem like such a hurdle to get over. But if you just eat a little more per snack / meal, it isn't so bad. I found the same when cutting back food - I did it gradually, then I actually felt less hungry. When I eat more, I want more... same principle really, but over time

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yeah you need to cut the workouts down, way down. 1 hour max.
RELAX, and dont need to be so strict with working out.
are you competing? no? then chill out

Thanks vegan essentials...I trust what you are saying....I forced a day off yesterday.

Other than feeling sick eating, in every other way I feel fantastic..energy is really high, depression subsided, stronger, muscle increase....its JUST the eating part that isn't working.
I had taken it easy for a few weeks in Nov after cracking 3 rib cartilages while lifting. Arms suffered from lack of use but my legs improved with a lighter load.
I am preparing to compete in the next 8 months. So far have been seeing great results with the long workouts and diet I'm on....

Theres a few reasons the workouts are so long...
I only work 4 hrs a day and other than that ALL my time is spare time... so 3 hrs at the gym is beneficial in my fight against boredom.
2ndly....I'm prone to anxiety and I need to be really tired if I want to fall asleep....even a 3 hr workout isn't enough some days. That originally was why I started going to the gym 6 years ago. I never cared about health or muscles...I just wanted to SLEEP.

_________________
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Find me on facebook: Deborah Nasmyth

Glad to see you took a bit of a break, and also, one other question -

Do you rely at all on large doses of caffeine to get through the day? Or, are you by any chance taking in more caffeine than usual during the times you have felt like you were getting sick from eating? I had forgotten (until yesterday) that for some people, too much caffeine can interfere with digestion and give some mixed signals before, during and after eating. I was REALLY worn out and tried to supercharge myself with two giant 24 oz. stron coffees, and while I was energized as hell, it made me remember why I don't like to take in that much caffeine. I felt energetic for 14 hours straight, but was barely hungry all day, and the two moderately-sized meals I ate during the day didn't sit right (same stuff I eat all the time), and I was feeling mildly nauseous afterward both times. Didn't even want to think about food for the most part, and everything I ate just sat the wrong way with my body.

I know some people get into a routine of guzzling coffee and/or energy drinks all day, and sometimes that caffeine can do some bad in other ways even though it keeps you energized. Just wanted to run that one by in case it might have anything to do with it, but of course, I may be completely off on this!

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"A 'hardgainer' is merely someone who hasn't bothered to try enough different training methods to learn what is actually right for their own damned body." - anonymous

I'm caffeine free lol...never had a coffee or energy drink in my life. But that's good to know...

I've adjusted my workouts so that they are a bit shorter - but no days off (not planned anyway...I'll take them if I really feel it though) I did gain about a pound this month...
Eating not so bad the last 2 weeks but still that last meal of the day at 11pm where I'm not hungry but need more calories is a struggle.

_________________
Failure: unacceptable.
Find me on facebook: Deborah Nasmyth