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 Post subject: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:26 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:09 pm
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I was reading an article and somebody at the health food store said it wasn't good for me. I started doing Tofu in Bok Choy and love it... Crap.

Anybody know more or had this issue? If it's not good what else could I get my protein from?

Brad


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 Post subject: Re: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:38 pm 
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Manatee
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Stay away from GMO soy which is 99% of the soy/soy ingredients/additives in food at the grocery store. It has to say non-GMO soy or if it is organic soy it is automatically non-GMO. Otherwise, EAT ALL YA WANT! :)

David

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 Post subject: Re: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:28 am 
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Rabbit

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Glad this came up. Like Brad says, a lot of the concern is genetically modified GMO soy and organic soy is non-GMO.

That said, I think Vega products are soy and gluten free. Is that true and, if so, I'd love to hear someone talk about vegans avoiding soy and why.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:40 am 
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GMO as a product is fine, but GMO companies suck.

Unless soy already makes up a large part of your diet, I wouldn't worry. Most vegans tend to get enough soy in their diets, however, so sticking with another type of powder could be a good idea...

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 Post subject: Re: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:13 am 
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Elephant
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This is the best article on the subject.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... e_big_deal

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 Post subject: Re: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:30 am 
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Gorilla

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HorseSense wrote:
Stay away from GMO soy which is 99% of the soy/soy ingredients/additives in food at the grocery store. It has to say non-GMO soy or if it is organic soy it is automatically non-GMO. Otherwise, EAT ALL YA WANT! :)


There's no evidence that GMO soy is any different from non-GMO in terms of nutrients or health. The only reason to stay away from GMO is because it's controlled by unethical companies.

That said, the only reason to stay away from soy nutritionally is if you have a sensitivity. Same thing for gluten, nuts, etc. Eat as much as you want as long as you're not having issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Manatee
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixyrCNVVGA

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-s ... 44575.html

"After feeding hamsters for two years over three generations, those on the GM diet, and especially the group on the maximum GM soy diet, showed devastating results. By the third generation, most GM soy-fed hamsters lost the ability to have babies. They also suffered slower growth, and a high mortality rate among the pups.

And if this isn't shocking enough, some in the third generation even had hair growing inside their mouths--a phenomenon rarely seen, but apparently more prevalent among hamsters eating GM soy."

That isn't evidence?

I'm not going to debate over GMOs. You tell people to eat it by the mouthfuls all you want. Even without any "evidence" I know to stay away from something that isn't natural. That's just common sense. Well, at least to me it is. Maybe it isn't to you.

You can't beat nature. You never will. Stop trying to get around it or its going to bite you in the ass or worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:42 pm 
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Gorilla

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 812
HorseSense wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixyrCNVVGA

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-s ... 44575.html

"After feeding hamsters for two years over three generations, those on the GM diet, and especially the group on the maximum GM soy diet, showed devastating results. By the third generation, most GM soy-fed hamsters lost the ability to have babies. They also suffered slower growth, and a high mortality rate among the pups.

And if this isn't shocking enough, some in the third generation even had hair growing inside their mouths--a phenomenon rarely seen, but apparently more prevalent among hamsters eating GM soy."

That isn't evidence?

No, it's not. They were breeding single, isolated groups across multiple generations without additional samples. They were increasing uniformity within the groups while decreasing diversity across. That's simply how multi-generational inbreeding works. They didn't have sufficient control over the feed, either, since by their own admission they can't be sure which components may have had an effect. Finally, nutritional research on rodents is often inapplicable to humans, as we differ quite remarkably in the way we process food.

It's simply not a good study.

HorseSense wrote:
I'm not going to debate over GMOs. You tell people to eat it by the mouthfuls all you want. Even without any "evidence" I know to stay away from something that isn't natural. That's just common sense. Well, at least to me it is. Maybe it isn't to you.

You can't beat nature. You never will. Stop trying to get around it or its going to bite you in the ass or worse.

Sounds good, buddy!

Have a good one.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:56 pm 
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Manatee
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blabbate wrote:
No, it's not. They were breeding single, isolated groups across multiple generations without additional samples. They were increasing uniformity within the groups while decreasing diversity across. That's simply how multi-generational inbreeding works. They didn't have sufficient control over the feed, either, since by their own admission they can't be sure which components may have had an effect. Finally, nutritional research on rodents is often inapplicable to humans, as we differ quite remarkably in the way we process food.

It's simply not a good study.



Wow you obviously know a lot more about this study than me. I just learned about this one myself.

Surely you can show really good studies showing evidence that GMO soy is really good for human consumption, especially since that would have been required by the federal government in order for it to be approved, right?

Also, this evidence you are going to show me (I'm sure you have it) must not be well known in most all of the other developed nations since they have banned GMOs for human consumption.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:29 pm 
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Gorilla

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:58 am
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HorseSense wrote:
Wow you obviously know a lot more about this study than me. I just learned about this one myself.

I thought you weren't going to argue about GMOs. I don't know anything about that study. I just read the abstract and some summaries. The flaws are apparent from a distance.

HorseSense wrote:
Surely you can show really good studies showing evidence that GMO soy is really good for human consumption, especially since that would have been required by the federal government in order for it to be approved, right?

I assume that last part is sarcasm, since most of what we eat hasn't specifically been proven safe in laboratory studies. The only "study" that proves most things are safe for humans is widespread consumption over time. Unless the FDA requires specific research indicating a crop is safe, nobody's going to bother. And in most cases, including soy, the FDA considers the GM substantially similar enough to the natural that it rubber stamps the approval.

HorseSense wrote:
Also, this evidence you are going to show me (I'm sure you have it) must not be well known in most all of the other developed nations since they have banned GMOs for human consumption.

That's simply not true. GMOs are legal in almost all of the EU. Britain and Spain even grow their own. Canada grows a massive amount. Most of Australia is fine with them. Poland, Portugal, Germany, and Sweden all grown some GMO crops, though not many. The EU in particular does go back and forth pretty frequently, though.

Anyway, like I said, there aren't studies to show that it's safe, but I didn't claim there were. There just also aren't any proving that it's dangerous. There are definitely good reasons to avoid it and even to ban it, but they aren't health-related. A lot of people avoid it because of a nebulous fear that it's not "natural," that it's some sort of franken-crop. They're certainly free to do so, but the evidence just isn't there.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:25 pm 
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Manatee
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Edited to make this short;

Quote:
I assume that last part is sarcasm, since most of what we eat hasn't specifically been proven safe in laboratory studies.


Most of what we eat hasn't been specifically modified at the genetic level by corporate scientists and marketed with a patent based on such. My question STANDS. Where is the evidence that it is healthy? Oh wait...

Quote:
The only "study" that proves most things are safe for humans is widespread consumption over time.


I think that concludes your own contradictory statement that there is no "evidence" that it is "bad".

My point stands. Unless you want to be a health guinea pig for a MONSTROSITY of a corporation looking to grab for a global monopoly on the human food supply, stay away from GMOs.

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Last edited by HorseSense on Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:03 pm 
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Elephant
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The problem with soy protein is it is made up of isolates. Feel free to ask Dr. McDougall MD but he has seen studies that it increases IGF-1 (which increase mutagenisis) aka cancer growth. Stick with hemp it has the a BCAA closest to our muscle body type and is very well assimilated.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:25 am 
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Gorilla

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:58 am
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HorseSense wrote:
Edited to make this short;

Quote:
I assume that last part is sarcasm, since most of what we eat hasn't specifically been proven safe in laboratory studies.


Most of what we eat hasn't been specifically modified at the genetic level by corporate scientists and marketed with a patent based on such. My question STANDS. Where is the evidence that it is healthy? Oh wait...

My answer isn't going to change. Those studies don't exist, and I never claimed they did.

HorseSense wrote:
Quote:
The only "study" that proves most things are safe for humans is widespread consumption over time.


I think that concludes your own contradictory statement that there is no "evidence" that it is "bad".

Not at all. The lack of evidence is not itself evidence. We don't have evidence either way in this case.

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 Post subject: Re: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:14 am 
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Rabbit

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 58
tuc wrote:
This is the best article on the subject.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... e_big_deal


Thank you for this link. It was really interesting and as added kudos--the authors are trained in dietetics and nutrition as well as Exercise Physiology. I have a huge problem with people who don't hold degrees in nutrition and dietetics telling people to what to eat. Even medical doctors get this stuff wrong. I just read an essay by an MD who has developed a dietary plan but along the road he advocated Pritikin (high carb & fiber, low fat & protein), Fit for Life, Eat Right for Your Blood Type, vegetable juicing, and no grain diets. He claims one of these diets gave him diabetes, one lowered his cholesterol to unsafe levels, some caused problems in his patients, etc... He's negatively affected his own health and that of his patients, following his advice and the advice of other MDs.


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 Post subject: Re: Soy Protein. Good or Bad?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:58 am 
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Manatee
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Location: Lexington, South Carolina
blabbate wrote:
We don't have evidence either way in this case.


Then what is your POINT?

We have POTENTIAL evidence that hasn't shown up yet, according to even you. You HONESTLY think Monsanto or the federal government gives a crap about you?

Yet it seems you don't give two flips about that thought, even trying to shoot down others' advise to stay away from it.

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