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 Post subject: Confusing Study on Vegan Nutrition for BodyBuilders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:56 pm 
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Finch

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:46 pm
Posts: 1
Hi Guys & Gals,

Sorry to start a new topic, but I couldn't figure out how to search for this specific subject.

Background: I am 68, male, 5'6", 140#, in pretty good shape and exercise 6 days a week. I have been vegetarian for the better part of the last 30 years, and have tried vegan diets a few times. I have been vegan for the last 6-8 months or so.

I am currently working with a good holistic MD who does not prescribe drugs, but he does strongly suggest eating meat because he believes that there are many nutrients therein that are not available otherwise.

Here's the issue: I have run across an article that refers to a study which shows that older bodybuilders get much better gains eating meat. Now I am not a bodybuilder by any means, but I would like to gain some muscle as well as strength and endurance.

I attached a report below, but your system would not allow a .doc extension, so I converted it to the most basic computer file, a .txt file and your system would still not allow it, so I have placed it at the end of this post, if your system.

Part of the study conclusion is as follows:
"The RT (Resistance Training)-induced changes in whole-body composition and skeletal muscle size differed significantly between the mixed- and LOV (LactoOvoVegetarian)-diet groups (time-by-group interactions, P < 0.05). With RT, whole-body density, fat-free mass, and whole-body muscle mass increased in the mixed diet group but decreased in the LOV- diet group. Type II muscle fiber area of the vastus lateralis muscle increased with RT for all men combined (P < 0.01), and the increase tended to be greater in the mixed-diet group (16.2 ± 4.4 %) than in the LOV diet group (7.3 ± 5.1%)."

So the vegetarians lost muscle mass and in one muscle,the muscle gains were 16% for the meat-eaters, but only 7% for the vegetarians.

Can I get some accurate response to this? Please (no offense) no rhetoric or generalizations.

Thanks a lot! :o)

P.S. I have another question on lignans, lectins and gluten, but I'll save that for another topic.


Humans can synthesize only about 50% of the necessary amino acids that make up the proteins in our bodies.

Therefore, if the remaining amino acids (called indispensable or essential) are not consumed in sufficient quantities, protein production is affected adversely. The quality of protein in a food is determined by its indispensable amino acid content.

Some foods contain all of these indispensable amino acids and in amounts sufficient to maintain protein synthesis, while others are lacking in at least one amino acid. The former are called complete protein foods and include such foods as dairy products, eggs, meat and fish, while the latter include grains, vegetables and fruits.

Moreover, it has been shown, at least in 59 to 69 year-old men, that strength training produced greater muscle mass gains with a meat-containing diet in comparison to a lactovegetarian diet.

Campbell WW, Barton Jr ML, Cyr-Campbell D, Davey SL, Beard JL, Parise G, Evans WJ: Effects of an omnivorous diet compared with a lactoovovegetarian diet on resistance-training-induced changes in body composition and skeletal muscle in older men. Am J Clin Nutr 70: 1032–1039, 1999.[

These data suggest that type of protein may play an important role in muscle growth with strength training.

Whey protein, especially whey protein isolates or hydrolyzed whey peptides, is widely promoted to strength athletes as being perhaps the best protein based on its high bioavailability and its content of several critical amino acids, i.e., glutamine, leucine, isoleucine and valine.

Due to differing physiochemical properties, whey protein amino acids enter the blood stream following ingestion faster than casein (major milk protein), which produces a significantly lower but more prolonged increase in blood amino acids.

Boirie Y, Dandin M, Gachon P, Vasson M-P, Maubois J-L, Beaufrère B: Slow and fast dietary protein differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Proc Nat Acad Sci 94: 14930–14935, 1997

It is clear that carbohydrate intake immediately following glycogen-depleting exercise can enhance subsequent muscle glycogen resynthesis when compared to the same intake several hours later.

Ivy JL, Katz AL, Culter CL, Sherman WM, Coyle EF: Muscle glycogen synthesis after exercise: effect of time of carbohydrate ingestion. J Appl Physiol 64: 1480–1485, 1988

Furthermore, stimulating muscle growth (by minimizing degradation and/or maximizing synthesis) via carbohydrate and amino acid ingestion following a strength exercise session. This is due to insulin-stimulated changes in muscle amino acid uptake and protein synthesis.

Roy BD, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDougall JD, Fowles J, Yarasheski KE: Effect of glucose supplement timing on protein metabolism after resistance training. J Appl Physiol 82: 1882–1888, 1997.

Tipton KD, Ferrando AA, Phillips SM: Postexercise net protein synthesis in human muscle from orally administered amino acids. Am J Physiol 276: E628–E634, 1999

Rasmussen BB, Tipton KD, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR: An oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement enhances muscle protein anabolism after resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol 88: 386–392, 2000.

Farrell PA, Fedele MJ, Vary TC, Kimble SR, Jefferson LS: Effects of intensity of acute-resistance exercise on rates of protein synthesis in moderately diabetic rats. J Appl Physiol 85: 2291–2297, 1998.

MacDougall JD, Gibala MJ, Tarnopolosky MA, MacDonald JR, Interisano SA, Yarasheski KE: The time course of elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise. Can J Appl Physiol 20: 480–486, 1995

Original Research Communications
Effects of an omnivorous diet compared with a lactoovovegetarian diet on resistance-training-induced changes in body composition and skeletal muscle in older men1,2,3
Wayne W Campbell, Marvin L Barton, Jr, Deanna Cyr-Campbell, Stephanie L Davey, John L Beard, Gianni Parise and William J Evans
1 From the Nutrition, Metabolism, and Exercise Laboratory, Donald W Reynolds Department of Geriatrics, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, Little Rock; the Geriatric Research, Education, and Clinical Center, Central Arkansas Veterans Healthcare System, Little Rock; the Noll Physiological Research Center and the Department of Nutrition, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park; and the Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, Hamilton, Canada.
Background: Very limited data suggest that meat consumption by older people may promote skeletal muscle hypertrophy in response to resistance training (RT).
Objective: The objective of this study was to assess whether the consumption of an omnivorous (meat-containing) diet would influence RT-induced changes in whole-body composition and skeletal muscle size in older men compared with a lactoovovegetarian (LOV) (meat-free) diet.
Design: Nineteen men aged 51–69 y participated in the study. During a 12-wk period of RT, 9 men consumed their habitual omnivorous diets, which provided 50% of total dietary protein from meat sources (beef, poultry, pork, and fish) (mixed-diet group). Another 10 men were counseled to self-select an LOV diet (LOV-diet group).
Results: Maximal strength of the upper- and lower-body muscle groups that were exercised during RT increased by 10–38% (P < 0.001), independent of diet. The RT-induced changes in whole-body composition and skeletal muscle size differed significantly between the mixed- and LOV-diet groups (time-by-group interactions, P < 0.05). With RT, whole-body density, fat-free mass, and whole-body muscle mass increased in the mixed diet group but decreased in the LOV- diet group. Type II muscle fiber area of the vastus lateralis muscle increased with RT for all men combined (P < 0.01), and the increase tended to be greater in the mixed-diet group (16.2 ± 4.4 %) than in the LOV diet group (7.3 ± 5.1%). Type I fiber area was unchanged with RT in both diet groups.
Conclusion: Consumption of a meat-containing diet contributed to greater gains in fat-free mass and skeletal muscle mass with RT in older men than did an LOV diet.
Key Words: Elderly men • lactoovovegetarian diet • resistance training • strength training • lean body mass • fat-free mass • body fat • muscle fiber area • muscle creatine • obesity


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 Post subject: Re: Confusing Study on Vegan Nutrition for BodyBuilders
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:21 am 
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Manatee

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:05 pm
Posts: 225
Location: USA
I think the most important factor here is exactly what did the 10 men eat who were on the LOV diet?

If you get adquate amounts of the essential amino acids, which can be accomplished without eating meat, you should be able to gain muscle just as well as the meat eater.

The study doesn't go into enough detail of exactly what the LOV control group was eating, maybe they didn't know enough about nutrition to eat proper amounts of the essential amino acids?

Even the study states this "Therefore, if the remaining amino acids (called indispensable or essential) are not consumed in sufficient quantities, protein production is affected adversely. The quality of protein in a food is determined by its indispensable amino acid content. "

So maybe the answer is they weren't consuming sufficeint quantities of amino acids because they didn't know how to eat properly.

Plus, the study is on a very small number of people, 19 total, and only 10 of which were in the LOV group.

I feel confident that if someone eats properly, they can gain muscle with a no meat diet at any age. You may have to be more aware of your amino acid intake for the age group studied because you will naturally be losing muscle mass normally which makes it harder to maintain or gain muscle mass at that age.

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