Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

Hello everyone,

I am new here and I am writing to get some advice. I have had low energy my entire life and a very difficult time building muscle and losing fat. I did lose a lot of weight by going vegan, but I still have about 10 extra pounds that I can't get rid of despite a lot of exercise and a very clean, mostly raw diet. I discovered that some other symptoms I have, such as sensitivity to cold and itchy skin, are also attributed to low testosterone. I tried different foods, supplements, herbs, etc. ,that are supposed to boost testosterone, to see if I felt better. Nothing worked. So, I finally built up the nerve to get a blood test. (I hate needles) Everything was normal except testosterone. It was very low. 110 and 2.3 I believe were the numbers.

Anyway, I am trying to find a doctor who is familiar with this, but from everything I have read, I will likely need some sort of steroid. This worries me because of the side effects. I have studied this quite a bit, and I have found testosterone to have more side effects than some other steroids. But most doctors seem to go right to the testosterone.

Some people claim testosterone replacement therapy is permanent, but others have reported a short term program that allowed them to tone up, burn fat, and when they went off the TRT, they felt bad for a month or two, but then their natural testosterone came back up to a higher level then what they started with.

Has anyone had similar issues, and if so, how did you go about treating low testosterone? Have a short term program worked for you? Did you use anything other than testosterone?

Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks!

I'm not knowledgeable at all on this subject - I just had some questions. You feel that the reason your energy levels are low, and your inability to lose as much fat as you desire to, and the frequency of colds you contract and the itchiness of your skin are all because your testosterone is abnormally low? And when you saw your blood test results that indicated your testosterone levels were very low what is the baseline that is judged from? Very low compared to the average male your age? How do you know all the natural methods you tried to boost your testosterone didn't help? Did you have your blood tested multiple times? Does the 110 and 2.3 levels you listed indicate where you were before or after trying all these different natural methods? What do those numbers mean specifically? I'll be interested to hear what happens as you decide what to do because steroid use is something that seems to not be very openly discussed. Good luck!

I would ask the more important question:

Why is your testosterone so low?

When you answer that question, then you would know how to proceed with how to find a solution to building up your testosterone to normal levels. If you want to get rid of the symptom, then you will have to take the straight testosterone injections. Because all the natural remedies are for boosting your testosterone by stimulating other upstream metabolic pathways. If the upstream pathways are blocked (usually tumors or cysts), then the natural remedies won't help you at all.

The range for women is something like 35 - 90. Men is 350 -1200. So I am considered extremely low for a man.

The natural remedies didn't change any of my symptoms. I wasn't going off of any tests, because this was the first time I had them done. I have read that in very rare cases, some guys show as much 50% increase in testosterone through some natural supplements, but even a 50% increase for me wouldn't do much at all. I would still be extremely low. I need a 200% increase to even be in the low normal range.

I don't contract colds, I have a sensitivity to the cold. My fingers and toes go numb in 60 degree weather. Cold tap water can cause terrible pain in my fingers in a matter of seconds.

There are many reasons that can cause my testosterone to be low. But nothing medically is standing out. It might simply be something with which I was born. I have had lifelong fatigue. When I was a child, my parents always called me lazy. I had to fight a lot of fatigue to accomplish anything. Exercising is very difficult for me, and even though I have completed 3 rounds of P90X, and 2 rounds of Insanity, I see almost no change on body composition, and very little increase in strength or endurance.

I am sure that eating the standard American diet for the first 30 years of my life didn't help either. But I have been veg for 9 years now, and although my energy level is probably double what it was before I went veg, it is still dismally low. I see the improvements people post on these programs, and they are 3 or 4 times as much as mine on their first round when I was on three.

I have seen some popular articles that report that (good) dietary fat can elevate testosterone. Some raw diets out there can be extremely low in fat. The only other natural means of rasining testosterone are weight training, particularly the large movement free weight exercises like squats.
I have no idea if either of those things would make enough of a difference for a significant problem.

You are already on the best route you can be, going to medical doctors in conjuction with your own research. Sorry I can't be of more help.

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Have you been tested for zinc levels already? I was reading about zinc recently... it sounds related.
I'm no doctor so this is just a suggestion.

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If it's important to you, you'll find a way. If it isn't, you'll find an excuse.

Tried increasing fat intake. Just made me fat. Zinc is ok. Like I said, blood tests came out normal. I was hoping someone here might be on TRT or a synthetic steroid to help with the same problem. Anyone?

I've been on this forum for a while. I don't think you are going to find anyone who has been on TRT who posts. There is a bodybuilding forum called something like "T Nation", you are more likely to find people there who have been steroids and other hormones. Of course, their views will be biased, but you will get to talk to someone who has lived on the stuff.

You might also try Googling on "testosterone forum", "testosterone replacement forum", etc ...

You are bound to find at least some narratives from oridinary men who have gone on it who have something to say about their experiences.

However, ancedotal accounts are not facts.

Your best bet is to go to at least two ( maybe more ) specialists with MDs to get different opinions and when you do go, don't tell them what the other doctors said.

Hope it works out for you.

_________________

• Vegan Mock Meats At Subway? Make It Happen!
• Finding Reliable Vegan Nutrition Information

"The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)

Already been to the doctors. Quite frankly, they are just overpaid salesmen. I ask them questions about synthetics, and they give me the "they're dangerous" speech. Heck, testosterone is dangerous! Some of the synthetics have more mild side effects than testosterone. But they haven't done their research. They were told "when symptom A appears, treat with medication B."

The problem I found at T Nation and Steroidology is that all of the guys who responded to me WANT to take more testosterone and steroids. They can't possibly fathom why I don't want to take a steroid for the rest of my life.

This has been terribly frustrating.

It seems that I have three choices.

1. Live with it.

2. Legal - Go on TRT for life and pay a pharmaceutical company for a dangerous steroid until a die.

3. Illegal - Find a supplier who will provide me with safer alternatives and the right post cycle therapy drugs so that I can work to lead a normal life without relaying on someone else for drugs.

How f'ed up is our medical community??

I don't understand why you are so upset.

If you have a real hormone problem any competent doctor should be able to measure it and tell you the standard treatments, the side effects, etc. You can always get a second and third opinion before you start anything. You can also do your own research, then make a decision.

If you needed glasses, would you forgo the benefits of using them because you would need to use them for the rest of your life?

_________________

• Vegan Mock Meats At Subway? Make It Happen!
• Finding Reliable Vegan Nutrition Information

"The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)

OK. I guess I will jump in here with what I know. How was your cholesterol? Was that also very low? Your body needs cholesterol to make many aromatic hormones, and testosterone is one of them. Now with a pure raw vegan diet, I am sure you are not taking in cholesterol. Or what little you are producing, it is needed to make many biochemicals in the body - one of them being cortisol - the hormone that is produced when there is stress in your life (physical stress from exercising, psychological stress from life, and nutritional stress when there is nutrients that the body needs and is not getting them, or dealing with toxic biochemicals/perservatives and other synthetic flavorings/colorings). Maybe stress is holding you back?
http://www.livestrong.com/article/22289 ... tosterone/

Beforewisdom,

I have done exactly that. The standard treatment is lifelong testosterone injections. They won't even consider other safer avenues, because those are NOT standard. The doctors want to prescribe me a lifelong treatment and be their cash cow. They should at least allow me to try other avenues in an attempt to correct the problem first. If those don't work, then maybe I have to consider lifelong TRT. But you don't put a new engine in your car until you make sure the old one isn't fixable.


Gaia,

As I mentioned earlier, there are no medical indications for my low testosterone. My total Cholesterol is 180. It is likely this high because of the low testosterone. Pituitary and thyroid all normal. My body thinks my low testosterone level is normal. I have to try and convince it that it is not normal.

If you know of other options why don't you look up some of those people using it and give it a go?

_________________

• Vegan Mock Meats At Subway? Make It Happen!
• Finding Reliable Vegan Nutrition Information

"The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)

Those options are all illegal without a doctors prescription, which they will not give. So, I am forced to weigh my health versus my career and a possible criminal record.