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 Post subject: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:55 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:42 pm
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For anyone who has low testosterone and are facing the prospect of TRT, please drop me a line first. I was told by 5 different doctors that I should go on TRT, but a simple stimulation test increased my testosterone by nearly 600%. Not one of the doctors suggested a stimulation test. TRT is generally considered a lifelong treatment.


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:43 pm 
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What did the stimulation test consist of?


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:54 am 
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A stimulation test consist of taking a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) such as Clomid or Tamoxifen, or HCG. The SERMs are easier as they are oral and the HCG is an injection. I had nearly a 600% increase in 9 days on Tamoxifen, so it showed that my testicles were fine and fully capable of producing testosterone. It was very simple and easy way to prove I have secondary hypogonadism and I don't need TRT at all. I am now trying to fix my HPTA and hopefully get my body to produce testosterone on its own. If I can't, then I will have to cycle a SERM for the rest of my life, which is much much better than taking a steroid for the rest of my life.


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:02 pm 
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PittyLove wrote:
....I will have to cycle a SERM for the rest of my life, which is much much better than taking a steroid for the rest of my life.


Why do you say that?

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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:35 pm 
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Why do you need it. What happens if your testosterone is too low? Or better question, how have you been affected in the past by your testosterone being too low? What if any are the side effects of taking the SERM?


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:03 pm 
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PittyLove wrote:
For anyone who has low testosterone and are facing the prospect of TRT, please drop me a line first. I was told by 5 different doctors that I should go on TRT, but a simple stimulation test increased my testosterone by nearly 600%. Not one of the doctors suggested a stimulation test. TRT is generally considered a lifelong treatment.


Thanks for posting the interesting post, based on real medical information and tests instead of marketing hokum, gym folklore, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Fallen_Horse wrote:
PittyLove wrote:
....I will have to cycle a SERM for the rest of my life, which is much much better than taking a steroid for the rest of my life.


Why do you say that?


Why do I say I might have to take a SERM for the rest of my life, or why is it better than a steroid?


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:28 pm 
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C.O. wrote:
Why do you need it. What happens if your testosterone is too low? Or better question, how have you been affected in the past by your testosterone being too low? What if any are the side effects of taking the SERM?


Low testosterone, in my particular case, causes very low energy, anxiety, weak bones, loss of muscle, difficulty sleeping, depression, sensitivity to cold, weakness, etc. It is not something with which it is easy to live.

Side effects of SERMS vary, but I have experienced none except occasional dry mouth.


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Elephant
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PittyLove wrote:
Fallen_Horse wrote:
PittyLove wrote:
....I will have to cycle a SERM for the rest of my life, which is much much better than taking a steroid for the rest of my life.


Why do you say that?


Why do I say I might have to take a SERM for the rest of my life, or why is it better than a steroid?

Why is it better than a steroid?

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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:01 pm 
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Fallen_Horse wrote:
Why is it better than a steroid?


Curious on that as well - considering that HCG (the real stuff, not the "HCG Diet" crap) is typically derived from the urine of from pregnant horses, something I'd prefer to avoid if possible, I'd likely be more prone to taking a low dose of something like Androgel if I had to pick and choose, but perhaps there are other reasons. Perhaps SERMs offer the ability to take some lapses in between without medicating whereas a direct dose of testosterone would be continual?

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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:49 pm 
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It seems like a person should be able to supplement with a lower does of testosterone for an 8-week cycle, then have 8 weeks off, but I could be wrong...

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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:08 pm 
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Fallen_Horse wrote:
It seems like a person should be able to supplement with a lower does of testosterone for an 8-week cycle, then have 8 weeks off, but I could be wrong...


The problem being that most testosterones don't have long lives in the body after the last dose. From the people I know who have used, they always say that there's a significant "crash" anywhere from a few days to a few weeks out (depending on what they'd been taking). Typically, the more potent testosterones have shorter lives in the body and require frequent dosing, whereas others might take about 2 weeks before they've done all they can do, it depends on what people are using. Even with blends that do taper down over a few weeks, usually those who are using will start their doses of SERMs almost as soon as their steriod cycle is over to prevent going from feeling great to feeling terrible, since your body will essentially stop producing natural testosterone for long periods of time after using synthetic unless SERMs are incorporated in order to stimulate natural production again.

Oh, the things you learn from hanging out with guys who are chemically enhanced! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Fallen_Horse wrote:
It seems like a person should be able to supplement with a lower does of testosterone for an 8-week cycle, then have 8 weeks off, but I could be wrong...


Why would I want to do that when my testicles can produce all the testosterone I need? And if someone cycles testosterone like that, it would be a wild roller coaster. The 8 weeks off would require a SERM or other type of estrogen blocker to try and get natural testosterone back up.

Testosterone replacement is considered a lifelong commitment. The longer you take it, the harder it is to recover. SERMS tend to work the opposite. They stimulate your natural cycle and the longer you take it, the greater the chance the body will be able to continue producing natural testosterone. The side effects are much less in number and severity.


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:43 pm 
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VeganEssentials wrote:
Fallen_Horse wrote:
Why is it better than a steroid?


Curious on that as well - considering that HCG (the real stuff, not the "HCG Diet" crap) is typically derived from the urine of from pregnant horses, something I'd prefer to avoid if possible, I'd likely be more prone to taking a low dose of something like Androgel if I had to pick and choose, but perhaps there are other reasons. Perhaps SERMs offer the ability to take some lapses in between without medicating whereas a direct dose of testosterone would be continual?


HCG is either derived from human female urine, or more likely synthetic. HCG increases ones natural testosterone, Androgel shuts it down. HCG is temporary, Androgel is permanent. Unless you use HCG to prevent shutdown when using Androgel.

In the last 4 weeks or so since I started taking the SERM, I have lost a good deal of fat, and gain a lot of lean body mass. I have experienced an endorphin rush or a "pump" until after I started taking the SERMs. Working out have become very easy for me. Much greater energy, and much faster recovery.

I am reducing the dosage everyday and hopefully will be off it completely soon. Hopefully my testosterone stays up.


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 Post subject: Re: Low Testosterone
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:13 pm 
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Rabbit

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:42 pm
Posts: 37
Well, it has been over a year, but I wanted to give ya'll an update. I cycled Tamoxifen for 2 months on/2 months off, three times, and I am now free of all meds and my testosterone is staying in the low normal range. I sure am glad I didn't listen to the doctors.


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